Doing a degree for first time at 55 and repaying student loan.

westv

Albermarle wrote: »

The tuition fees loan is largely dependent on what previous higher education you have had and not dependent on your age and financial circumstances.

Does higher education also include professional qualifications that have been obtained whilst working?

bluenose1

westv wrote: »

Does higher education also include professional qualifications that have been obtained whilst working?

No, it means a previous degree.
"Usually you can only get student finance for your first degree even if you studied a long time ago or if the course was abroad. You might get funding for a second degree if you study an exception course such as Nursing, Midwifery or Teaching."

zagubov

These concerns about paying back costs of education might be better understood if we think about costs of health. There's no excuse for having an economic system where access to health is constrained unless the patient impoverishes himself to pay it all completely back.

It's not on; health's something to be encouraged wherever possible.

Imagine we stopped treating ill children because they wouldn't live long enough to pay us back. You might say that parents would insist on paying but then what of orphans?

There are very brave young people out there with diseases that mean they won't live long enough to repay society for their treatment or the education they're receiving at university or school. We certainly don't boot them out of their doctor's surgeries or their classes for this and we never should even consider it.

Education is a normal part of our natural development as human beings. I'm not saying that everybody needs to do a degree but I would recognise that many people would enjoy some further or even higher education.

We're living longer and longer anyway due to the spread of knowledge.

Education's a necessity. It's the antidote to ignorance, which is a massive burden the world's had to bear since ages past. How are we and our descendants going to make a go of life in the future if we don't distribute it as widely as possible?

Rant over:mad:

Malthusian

The crucial difference is that a lot of taxpayer funded university education is the equivalent of having plastic surgery on the NHS (for purely cosmetic purposes, not after severe scarring).

Doesn't benefit society, usually doesn't even benefit the recipient, and even when it does the case for making the taxpayer pay for it is weak.

bugslett

I'm in full agreement zagubov and learning when you are older keeps the synapses and neurons firing away, but on a personal basis I think if you are not going to use a degree and are 1. doing it for personal 'fun' and 2. could afford to pay for it and 3.ducking out of things like council tax with relish...well for me it's morally wrong.

We all know that there is a lack of money (the rights and wrongs of borrowing/spending have been discussed elsewhere) so I can't personally (I keep stressing that this is a decision for me and being terribly libertarian everyone else can do what they want), use money that could be better spent on people in need as opposed to want. See Malthusian's comments;).

I expect to do all sorts of learning, I've started learning Norwegian, I want to do a garden design course, if I enjoy it then maybe I'll do a course that takes years, but I'll be paying for it.

Zanderman

bugslett wrote: »

I'm in full agreement zagubov and learning when you are older keeps the synapses and neurons firing away, but on a personal basis I think if you are not going to use a degree and are 1. doing it for personal 'fun' and 2. could afford to pay for it and 3.ducking out of things like council tax with relish...well for me it's morally wrong.

We all know that there is a lack of money (the rights and wrongs of borrowing/spending have been discussed elsewhere) so I can't personally (I keep stressing that this is a decision for me and being terribly libertarian everyone else can do what they want), use money that could be better spent on people in need as opposed to want. See Malthusian's comments;).

I expect to do all sorts of learning, I've started learning Norwegian, I want to do a garden design course, if I enjoy it then maybe I'll do a course that takes years, but I'll be paying for it.

Thinking about your points 1 2 and 3 (but not in that order):

The Council Tax argument is, I entirely agree, not morally (or even practically) right. No-one should see avoiding/reducing council tax as a reason for signing up to do a degree. It's a red herring and not really what this thread is about - it was a rather mischievous addition to the discussion made in post #10

However there is, surely, nothing wrong in doing a degree for 'personal fun' (your words), It's no different to any other education done for personal satisfaction/enjoyment/fulfilment - your last para implies that you're doing Norwegian and planning a garden design course, perhaps more "if you enjoy it" (your words). That is, surely, also education for fun? Nothing wrong with that surely?

So that just leaves us with whether one should pay for it all personally or not. And yes, if you can afford it then perhaps you should pay for it. But many won't be able to afford it - especially when retired (I certainly couldn't afford university fees now) - so the student loan system has merit and a function for retirees.

As you said earlier, it's all up to your personal beliefs/values.

westv

I see no difference between an 18 year old who studies a subject they enjoy but which they know will never get them a salary high enough to repay a student "loan" and a 56 year old who studies a subject they enjoy using a student "loan" but which they know will never need to be repaid due to their age.

jackieblack

Zanderman wrote: »

The Council Tax argument is, I entirely agree, not morally (or even practically) right. No-one should see avoiding/reducing council tax as a reason for signing up to do a degree. It's a red herring and not really what this thread is about - it was a rather mischievous addition to the discussion made in post #10

Well it wasn’t intended to be mischievous, it was meant to be informative :huh:
And of course it’s not a reason for signing up to do a degree (frankly, the suggestion that it might be is ridiculous) but, for some, it may make the difference between being able to afford to do a degree or not.
But there’s no compulsion for anyone to claim the exemption if they choose not to.

bluenose1

I have been researching potential degree courses and am now contemplating History as a Combined Degree with Sociology. May go to one of the Open Days scheduled at a local University to discuss possibilities and options.
From speaking to some "mature students" sounds like it will be hard work but with a great sense of satisfaction.
The fact that I will never have to pay the tuition or maintenance fees back is definitely a massive incentive and bonus to me.

zagubov

Years ago, when universities were private and you had to be rich to go there, they weren't so obsessive about finishing a degree. You studied till you judged you'd learned enough then stopped attending and went off to earn a living.

I believe lots of people could benefit from doing a HNC, HND, DipHE instead of a full degree (but one problem is that most of these qualifications are vocational and not necessarily the kind of thing you might study out of interest).

I've long believed that everybody should take a complementary course in a completely different field.
I've often thought everybody in Science might benefit from GCSE Modern History.

Failing that the Scottish exam system's Modern Studies course has an intriguing mix of politics and sociology.

By the same token, all arts and humanities students wouldn't be harmed by exposure to the old Human Health and Physiology GCSE.

You used to be able to study these at evening class. Now many courses like these, and the idea of educational evening classes to broaden knowledge have been swept away.

We're not getting the education system we deserve. We need more breadth of experience and knowledge throughout the general population so we don't get STEM graduates being groomed to be terrorists or humanities graduates who don't understand how unfettered normal human activity could eventually distort and maybe fatally damage our ecosystem.

Making this kind of education free to all should be a priority (unless we're obsessed with cutting it so we can cut taxes on the rich).