Equitable Life with profits pension / takeover.

Notnobody

As I understand it, I can take a quarter of my pension pot without paying tax.  In the current situation, I might be better off taking the lot and paying tax!  I see that if I die after age 75, my kids will pay 45% tax if it's left with Utmost.  I'm 73.  I emailed Utmost to confirm, but no reply so far - they say people withdrawing funds will be dealt with first....  Could someone point me towards the form I need to download and send them

allgreek

Notnobody said:

Could someone point me towards the form I need to download and send them 

As far as I know, you have to get them to send you a pensions options pack. The page for that is at:

https://www.utmost.co.uk/contact-us/request-pensions-options-pack/

(I'm not allowed to post links here). After I got that I phoned them to request a withdrawal form. They asked if I had got an options pack and I was able to quote the date and reference on the letter accompanying the pack; when I stated those it seemed they had that information on their system, but I still had to show that I had received the pack.

The form I got is headed "Cash Lump Sum Payment Form". I have attached it as a pdf, however I expect that even if this is the correct from for your purposes they will not accept it from you unless they have sent you a  pensions option pack and then you have asked them to send you a withdrawal form. This is quite reasonable to ensure it is really you requesting the withdrawal.

I got the payments (there were 2 pension funds) quite quickly once I sent off the forms. Now I'm trying to contact HMRC to get a refund on the overpaid tax.

Notnobody

allgreek said:

Notnobody said:

Could someone point me towards the form I need to download and send them 

As far as I know, you have to get them to send you a pensions options pack. The page for that is at:

https://www.utmost.co.uk/contact-us/request-pensions-options-pack/

(I'm not allowed to post links here). After I got that I phoned them to request a withdrawal form. They asked if I had got an options pack and I was able to quote the date and reference on the letter accompanying the pack; when I stated those it seemed they had that information on their system, but I still had to show that I had received the pack.

The form I got is headed "Cash Lump Sum Payment Form". I have attached it as a pdf, however I expect that even if this is the correct from for your purposes they will not accept it from you unless they have sent you a  pensions option pack and then you have asked them to send you a withdrawal form. This is quite reasonable to ensure it is really you requesting the withdrawal.

I got the payments (there were 2 pension funds) quite quickly once I sent off the forms. Now I'm trying to contact HMRC to get a refund on the overpaid tax.

iThanks! I got info recently, which looks like a pensions pack, it included info on getting a Pensionwise appointment, no use as I don't live in UK.  I need to decide whether to take the lot, and be taxed 20% on three quarters of it, or take a quarter and hope the rest doesn't lose more than 20%.

allgreek

They will give you 25% of whatever you take out as a tax free lump sum and charge tax on the rest. This means you cannot elect to take 25% of the total tax free. For example, if you have £4000 in the fund and take out £1000,  you will get £250 tax free and will be charged tax on £750. You will not get £1000 tax free.

As I also don't live in the UK and don't pay tax there I had to make a similar decision to you. I read the dual taxation treaty between the UK and Poland (where I live) and it said regular pension payments are taxed where I live but lump sum withdrawals are taxed in the country where the pension is held. My withdrawals are therefore taxed in the UK. I was lucky that I was able to get some money out before 5th April and I hope I can use my UK tax free allowance (£12,500) to reduce the amount of tax to pay on the withdrawal. One of my funds was small to I withdrew the full amount of that and they sent me a P45 - they taxed that at 22%. The other was a partial withdraw from a larger fund and they taxed that at 28%. These tax rates are the on the taxable amount of the withdrawal, not the total amount of the withdrawal. As I said before, I'm trying to communicate with HMRC to get a refund as I have no taxable income in the UK.

For your situation, if you are registered for tax where you live, you need to look at the dual taxation treaty to see where you have to pay tax on a withdrawal. Search for Tax Treaties on the hmrc.gov.uk web site to find this.

Notnobody

allgreek said:

They will give you 25% of whatever you take out as a tax free lump sum and charge tax on the rest. This means you cannot elect to take 25% of the total tax free. For example, if you have £4000 in the fund and take out £1000,  you will get £250 tax free and will be charged tax on £750. You will not get £1000 tax free.

As I also don't live in the UK and don't pay tax there I had to make a similar decision to you. I read the dual taxation treaty between the UK and Poland (where I live) and it said regular pension payments are taxed where I live but lump sum withdrawals are taxed in the country where the pension is held. My withdrawals are therefore taxed in the UK. I was lucky that I was able to get some money out before 5th April and I hope I can use my UK tax free allowance (£12,500) to reduce the amount of tax to pay on the withdrawal. One of my funds was small to I withdrew the full amount of that and they sent me a P45 - they taxed that at 22%. The other was a partial withdraw from a larger fund and they taxed that at 28%. These tax rates are the on the taxable amount of the withdrawal, not the total amount of the withdrawal. As I said before, I'm trying to communicate with HMRC to get a refund as I have no taxable income in the UK.

For your situation, if you are registered for tax where you live, you need to look at the dual taxation treaty to see where you have to pay tax on a withdrawal. Search for Tax Treaties on the hmrc.gov.uk web site to find this.

Thanks again!  I thought you could take 25% of the total before tax.  It gets more complicated.  I complete a tax return in France, a legal requirement, but mostly pay tax in UK as half my income is from my  deceased husband's public sector pension and half state pension. So I use theUK personal allowance.  I'd have to declare the lump sum in France, where they might take social charges. I need to work out whether it's a good idea, but am reluctant to leave my fund with Utmost as I feel it will lose value.

allgreek

Notnobody said:
 I complete a tax return in France

There is a reply in this thread from nigelbb to a comment you made on 12 September 2019 which says you only pay tax at 7.5% in France if you withdraw the whole amount of your pension fund. It's on page 15 of the thread and nigelbb's reply is dated 13 September 2019. You might want to look into that.

On 18 March 2020 at 10;23PM archer123 suggested on this thread (page 46) to tell Utmost to keep the money in the Secure Cash fund but I don't know if that's possible. If it's not, I'm considering moving mine from the Secure Cash fund to the Money Market fund as that is likely to be less volatile than funds invested in the stock markets. It probably won't make any capital gains and it might not keep pace with inflation but the possibility of stability is very tempting for me. This is what I am planning, you must make your own decision (with the help of a financial advisor if appropriate)

POPPYOSCAR

allgreek said:

Notnobody said:

Could someone point me towards the form I need to download and send them 

As far as I know, you have to get them to send you a pensions options pack. The page for that is at:

https://www.utmost.co.uk/contact-us/request-pensions-options-pack/

(I'm not allowed to post links here). After I got that I phoned them to request a withdrawal form. They asked if I had got an options pack and I was able to quote the date and reference on the letter accompanying the pack; when I stated those it seemed they had that information on their system, but I still had to show that I had received the pack.

The form I got is headed "Cash Lump Sum Payment Form". I have attached it as a pdf, however I expect that even if this is the correct from for your purposes they will not accept it from you unless they have sent you a  pensions option pack and then you have asked them to send you a withdrawal form. This is quite reasonable to ensure it is really you requesting the withdrawal.

I got the payments (there were 2 pension funds) quite quickly once I sent off the forms. Now I'm trying to contact HMRC to get a refund on the overpaid tax.

Yes I spoke to them yesterday as I emailed for a form to take a flexible cash payment a month ago and had not received it. They are not allowed by law to make the form available unless requested by the policyholder I was told.

I was told they did have my email and my form was due to go out anyday. I in fact received it today.

They could not say how long it would take to make the payment. They said they are giving priority to those that are ill.

allgreek

POPPYOSCAR said:
They could not say how long it would take to make the payment.

I posted my forms to them about 12th March and received payment to my bank account for one policy on 2nd April and for the other policy on 3rd April. This includes the time it takes a letter to travel from Poland to Utmost in Aylesbury.

It's possible for them to send you a copy of the form by e-mail, but it takes them the same length of time to do that as it takes them to put in the post so there's not much benefit in that.

Joey_Soap

Joey_Soap said:

Well, after months of asking and waiting, my transfer request out of Utmost was finally sent to me yesterday. Based on all the figures I have previously had, the transfer out value is about 25% less than I believe the actual transferred pot of money is "worth". I am happy the end game is now in sight. I can transfer the pittance of an AVC out to my SIPP at Interactive Investor. I conclude the whole EL/Utmost thing has been nothing much more than a scam on top of the previous scam at EL where everyone except the policyholders have benefitted. I will now put the transfer application in motion.

My Utmost AVC pot is administered by Mercer who to date have been useless. But I have completed and returned their transfer form along with the one for Interactive Investor. I am transferring AVC cash from Utmost to my existing II SIPP. Unfortunately, I am involuntarily caught overseas presently and I understand air mail is taking about three weks to reach the UK. But I hope that Interactive Investor will keep on top of the transfer process and push it along. A cash transfer from Umost to II "should be" fairly quick. When I treansferfed an "In Specie" SIPP from Hargeaves Lansdown to II, HL found every excuse under the sun to delay the transfers in order (it seemed) to keep extracting their usurious platform charges from me.

POPPYOSCAR

allgreek said:

POPPYOSCAR said:
They could not say how long it would take to make the payment.

I posted my forms to them about 12th March and received payment to my bank account for one policy on 2nd April and for the other policy on 3rd April. This includes the time it takes a letter to travel from Poland to Utmost in Aylesbury.

It's possible for them to send you a copy of the form by e-mail, but it takes them the same length of time to do that as it takes them to put in the post so there's not much benefit in that.

Yes but 12th march was before the lockdown  so I would think things are very different now. The guy I spoke to told me he was working from his bedroom(I had to wait 30 minutes to get through) and as I said priority is being given to those that are ill so I would be surprised if I get payment within the usual time scale that they quote. He certainly seemed to indicate that there might be a significant delay to the usual time scale.We will see.

Understandable in the circumstances. I am just grateful that they are still processing payments.