Equitable Life with profits pension / takeover.

Grumpygit

Utmost is the brand name of the group of companies that have been bought with a view to putting them under one name.


It is run by two individuals who have several years experience in life insurance one being an actuary.


They have backing and have bought several companies in Ireland, IOM and Guernsey with a view to creating a large group company (Utmost) which will offer lots of different products to both individuals and Corporates (ie pensions and savings plans)


They are easily googled

JohnWinder

Thanks for that information.
I wonder if there is anything of significance in your ‘etc’, because surely you won’t be able to take your pension money from Equitable Life once the uplift has been applied, because the uplift is contingent upon the ‘Scheme’ being executed, and the ‘Scheme’ involves Utmost being handed your uplifted fund which they’ll turn into units of one of their market-valued managed funds.
It’s reassuring to learn you could take your money whenever you want after age 60, through all these change, but your legal entitlement to take retirement savings after 60 could only be taken away by the Parliament I’d imagine.

[Deleted User]

JohnWinder wrote: »

Thanks for that information.
I wonder if there is anything of significance in your ‘etc’, because surely you won’t be able to take your pension money from Equitable Life once the uplift has been applied, because the uplift is contingent upon the ‘Scheme’ being executed, and the ‘Scheme’ involves Utmost being handed your uplifted fund which they’ll turn into units of one of their market-valued managed funds.
It’s reassuring to learn you could take your money whenever you want after age 60, through all these change, but your legal entitlement to take retirement savings after 60 could only be taken away by the Parliament I’d imagine.

I asked and was told there wont be any penalties for transferring your money out of Utmost plans, at least in the short term. This is something we need to be sure of before the vote. If true, I see no downside.

ricki77

Utmost will make £90 mln if we all transfer out on day 1 possibly much more assuming Equitable fund is worth £1.8 billion. My personal calculations are as follows: transfer value now 48000 incl. 12500 uplift. So, double the uplift to £25000 would make £60500 to be transferred to Utmost fund. 5% spread would cost me £3000 so I should still be better off by £9K unless Utmost have some hidden charges.

varne27

It seems that most posters are looking for reassurance prior to accepting. This is fair enough if about to take pension benefits.
I am not, and would be extremely unhappy about investing a large sum in todays markets. Any long overdue market correction could wipe out my value uplift overnight.
Anybody know the market value of the present 3 1/2% quaranteed return? ....... Well no, because it is not available anywhere. So you might say it is priceless.
This is all before I consider the terms that will be available from a dubious feeder on troubled pension funds.

pafpcg

The next batch of paperwork from Equitable has arrived, all 1.08kg!

This is the Explanatory Booklet and a 215 page Part B with all the appendices to the proposals. In the package there should be a separate envelope containing a personalised illustration with the projected values of the policyholder's funds and the expected uplift in value at the Implementation Date (1st Jan 2020), plus the voting forms.

The expected uplift is expected to be 68% of the fund value as at December 2017. Some policies may have a higher uplift.

We still await the Investment Choice Booklet giving details of the unit-linked funds (to be managed by Utmost) which should be distributed sometime in August.

My initial comments based on a quick scan:

1. Opting-out of the transfer of funds to the unit-linked funds managed by Utmost isn't addressed directly, but it should be possible. Section 22.7 on page 20 of Part B of the Explantory Booklet says: "Subject to the terms of your policy, you can choose at any point, before or after the Implementation Date, to transfer your benefits away, for example, to a provider who offers with-profits benefits." [There's lots of cautionary notes to say any move before the Implementation Date will lose the uplift.]

2. The personalised Illustration offers three unit-linked funds: Multi-Asset Moderate Fund, Multi-Asset Cautious Fund, Money Market Fund and a short-life Secure Cash Investment Fund (to be used to hold transferred funds prior to allocation). There are brief details of each fund on page 22 of the Part B, plus details of some US$ denominated funds. There are no specific details of charges or T&Cs for these funds, that I could find. Nor could I find any match for these three funds either on the Equitable or the Utmost websites. Could they be entirely new?
Edit 10Aug: The "Summary of the Policyholder Independent Expert's Report" in Part B of the Explanatory Booklet on pages 130-164 (AppendixVI) makes clear that the unit-linked funds listed in the Explanatory Booklet orginate from an Equitable internal modelling exercise (called "Extent Better Off") which attempted to predict the results of switching from a with-profits fund to a range of unit-linked funds. (See Post #64 below.)

Happy reading!

feet_up

Nothing very profound from me.


In what circumstances would this not be a no-brainer for me?


My guarantee is 3.5% annual growth and I have a guaranteed value of 32K oh and I'm 64


Serious question.

BlondeHeadOn

I am still waiting for my information pack, they must be sending them out in batches. Or - if they are so weighty - my postman has gone off sick with back strain.

The suspense is ... suspenseful.

pafpcg

BlondeHeadOn wrote: »

The suspense is ... suspenseful.

No need to fret! Even with this bundle of paperwork, don't take any decisions until the Investment Choice Pack arrives in the few weeks. Meanwhile, perhaps plan your own timetable for when to consider your options and take a decision on voting (deadline end-October) and, assuming the transfer is agreed, when to decide what to do with your funds (deadline 13-December)?

pafpcg

feet_up wrote: »

In what circumstances would this not be a no-brainer for me?

My guarantee is 3.5% annual growth and I have a guaranteed value of 32K oh and I'm 64.

I can't get my brain around that double-negative. So, I'll suggest: - there are NO circumstances where this decision would be a no-brainer!

Take a look at Equitable's Explanatory Booklet Part A on pages 22 to 30, which summarises the issues. My reading of situation is with the current policy you are invested in a single fund with a guaranteed (increasing) value plus a variable capital distribution when you exit; the proposed offering is that you'll have to choose from a range of funds and there's no safety net - your pension fund may be worth less from one year to the next. The other option, which doesn't seem to be discussed in Equitable's booklet would be to transfer your funds to another provider offering something closer to Equitable's original with-profits fund (but wait until after the Implementation Date on 1st-Jan-2020 to collect your full uplift!) It's a fundamental question about how much risk you want to take with your pension funds - I doubt anyone has a no-brainer option. (Except for that guy who planned to invest his pension in bitcoin!)

The "primary uplift" in policy funds (which replaces the current capital distribution) is expected to be about 68% but the exact value will not be notified until sometime around end-September. All policyholders will be entitled to the primary uplift; some policyholders (about 23%) will also get a secondary uplift of between 5% and 15%. Until the exact amount of funds to pay the secondary uplift has been calculated, the primary uplift (based on what's left in the fund) can't be calculated precisely. See pages 15-19 of Part B of the Explanatory Booklet.

There is also clarification of the earlier promise to offer individual advice - Page 38 of Part A says in the section on "Helping you to make your decision" that Equitable has arranged for a dedicated team from JLT Wealth Management to provide support via a telephone hotline. If you need further assistance, "JLT can also provide you with advice, including a recommendation on how to cast your vote. The cost of this JLT advice is £95, which has been subsidised by the Equitable". If you have an existing adviser, Equitable will subsidise the cost up to £355. Note: - not a new adviser!

Edit 10Aug: the "Summary of the Policyholder Independent Expert's Report" in Part B of the Explanatory Booklet on pages 130-164 (AppendixVI) gives a more complete picture of policyholder guidance, which includes subsidised advice from Hargeaves Lansdown: Online Type 1 at £50; Telephone Type 2 at £95 and Full Advice Type 3 at £345. These fees are subsidised by Equitable (see the table on page 158).