Self Assessment confusing

lutonhatters

TheCyclingProgrammer yes that's correct. I was not asking if I can not pay the amounts due as payment on account every June. But whether as I always file and pay my tax in full every April and the January POA again in Aprl whether I need not pay the July POA at the same time, (or at all - as a seaparate payment) because by the July I will have paid the tax to which that POA corresponds in full in the prior April.

So 1 payment a year every April, the tax for that period in full, plus 1 POA due by January. That will keep my tax up to date and no arrears?

Dazed_and_confused

So 1 payment a year every April, the tax for that period in full, plus 1 POA due by January. That will keep my tax up to date and no arrears?

Up to date = no (though is subjective)

No arrears = yes

If you follow your somewhat bizarre approach you are going to be paying some of the tax twice and will end up even more confused than you already are.

For example let's say 2018:19 was your first tax return.

2018:19 return shows £9,000 tax due plus £4,500 POA due for 2019:20
You pay £13,500.

2019:20 return (filed in April 2020) shows £10,000 tax due plus £5,000 POA due for 2020:21
You pay £15,000

But you have already paid £4,500 as a provisional payment towards the 2019:20 tax liability in January 2020.

So you are constantly paying more than you need to.

I am struggling to see why you can't just file the return and then look at your Self Assessment account a few days later to understand what actually needs to be paid.

polymaff

Dazed_and_confused wrote: »

I am struggling to see why you can't just file the return and then look at your Self Assessment account a few days later to understand what actually needs to be paid.

Hear, Hear.

Hatter, you can insist on one payment per annum if you like, but on MSE forums you'll look rather eccentric in your apparent desire to give HMRC interest-free loans.

Forumites would see it as more MSE to use your HMRC Statement of Account as a guide as to how much is due and when. Personally I use this guidance, twice a year, and set up an electronic payment for the sum indicated, arranged to be paid two working days before the due date.

But it is up to you.

polymaff

I would just add that, because I set up the electronic payment much nearer the due date then you do (typically 20th January and 20th July) - I don't end up over or underpaying and so never face what seems to be causing you stress.

lutonhatters

Thank you all. I will take your advice and file then login to HMRC and see what I owe. Thank you for your patience in explaining.

If anyone would be kind enough to confirm I have this right - for reassurance I will login to HMRC after filing my return, but to reassure me I have understood how it works, this is what I now expect to see on HMRC after I file:

I will file a SA for 2018-19 which my software gives the following figures (recap it is new software this year so unless I manually enter previous payments on account - which I cannot work out the amounts from HMRC website - so the software shows £0):

Total Tax due £9,000
Minus:
1st payment on account 2018-19 £ 0
2nd payment on account 2018-19 £ 0
Plus:
1st payment on account due 31 Jan 2020: £4,500
Total due 31 Jan 2020: £13,500
2nd payment on account due on 31 July 2020: £4,500

As of today if I login to HMRC it shows me:
I have overpaid £3,500 (it says amount available for repayment £3,500 and a link 'request repayment')
Then underneath it says:
Amount due £1,500 (to be paid by 31 July 2019)

If I don't request this payment, and file my SA, I expect HMRC to then show:

Payment on account £4,500
Tax due £9,000
Less -£3,000 overpayment
Total due £10,500 due by 31 January 2020
Payment on account £4,500 due by 31 July 2020

So the £3,000 will be credited against the £13,500 I would otherwise be due to pay by 31 January 2020.

Correct?

polymaff

With some data missing and two different overpayment values, why not just let things happen?

Your impatience is causing your stress and it is fundamentally unwise to try to submit asap. Why? Because the HMRC SA software may be faulty. It was this time last year - and many taxpayers received multiple corrections to their accounts as HMRC struggled to get the SA software to work. I know, as Mrs P was one of them.

I know it's not your way, but R E L A X.

Dazed_and_confused

I will file a SA for 2018-19 which my software gives the following figures (recap it is new software this year so unless I manually enter previous payments on account - which I cannot work out the amounts from HMRC website - so the software shows £0):

Total Tax due £9,000
Minus:
1st payment on account 2018-19 £ 0
2nd payment on account 2018-19 £ 0
Plus:
1st payment on account due 31 Jan 2020: £4,500
Total due 31 Jan 2020: £13,500
2nd payment on account due on 31 July 2020: £4,500

As of today if I login to HMRC it shows me:
I have overpaid £3,500 (it says amount available for repayment £3,500 and a link 'request repayment')
Then underneath it says:
Amount due £1,500 (to be paid by 31 July 2019)

If I don't request this payment, and file my SA, I expect HMRC to then show:

Payment on account £4,500
Tax due £9,000
Less -£3,000 overpayment
Total due £10,500 due by 31 January 2020
Payment on account £4,500 due by 31 July 2020

So the £3,000 will be credited against the £13,500 I would otherwise be due to pay by 31 January 2020.

Correct?

No.

You are still overcomplicating things.

It is no good just quoting payment dates, each payment relates to a specific tax year so on 31:01:2020 you might be paying something towards 2018:19 and something towards 2019:20.

The only way anyone can help you is if copy all the entries on your current statement. For example this is very confusing

I have overpaid £3,500 (it says amount available for repayment £3,500 and a link 'request repayment')
Then underneath it says:
Amount due £1,500 (to be paid by 31 July 2019)

I have no idea from this if your 2018:19 second POA is £1,500 (which seems too low based on your post where you said the 2017:18 liability was £6,000) or £5,000 with £3,500 already effectively paid (£5,000 similarly seems too high).

lutonhatters

Thank you again. Yes I phoned HMRC and they did say there were some errors on their system that needed correcting. I will submit the SA and see what I owe.

00ec25

lutonhatters wrote: »

Thank you again. Yes I phoned HMRC and they did say there were some errors on their system that needed correcting. I will submit the SA and see what I owe.

seems despite many replies on here you haven't taken on board anything that has been said? Split by tax year and you will understand how the POA fits into things, it really is as simple as that.