Consequence of lgps transfer

Nebulous2

Reading the thread on lgps about rule of 85 protection, does all of that get lost on transferring?

I worked for the NHS, then for a couple of charities that were admitted LGPS bodies. Each time I transferred my pension. It was latterly in a London pension scheme, when the charity decided they couldn't afford the payments and took us out of the scheme in 2010, leaving a deferred pension.

A year later I moved to a job with a Scottish lgps scheme and again transferred everything into the new scheme. That involved changing from a 80ths scheme with lump sum to a 60ths scheme without. I got a few extra years, which I assumed was because my salary had dropped, but more recently my statement has broken that down and shown I received 130% for my NHS service, but only 90% for my time in the London scheme.

In 2015 we moved to a care scheme.

Have I lost any protection on rule of 85 by moving? I've effectively traded my lump sum for a bigger pension, but may take a much bigger hit in actuarial reduction if I retire earlier than state retirement age.

GunJack

Ask the scheme administrators, they can give you a definitive answer. The 60th schemes were designed so you can commute some pension for lump sum should you want one, but took the compulsion away, hence the 60ths not 80ths with auto ls.

Some posters like SilverTabby on here may be able to advise more...

Silvertabby

Nebulous2 wrote: »

Reading the thread on lgps about rule of 85 protection, does all of that get lost on transferring?

I worked for the NHS, then for a couple of charities that were admitted LGPS bodies. Each time I transferred my pension. It was latterly in a London pension scheme, when the charity decided they couldn't afford the payments and took us out of the scheme in 2010, leaving a deferred pension.

A year later I moved to a job with a Scottish lgps scheme and again transferred everything into the new scheme. That involved changing from a 80ths scheme with lump sum to a 60ths scheme without. I got a few extra years, which I assumed was because my salary had dropped, but more recently my statement has broken that down and shown I received 130% for my NHS service, but only 90% for my time in the London scheme.

In 2015 we moved to a care scheme.

Have I lost any protection on rule of 85 by moving? I've effectively traded my lump sum for a bigger pension, but may take a much bigger hit in actuarial reduction if I retire earlier than state retirement age.

How old are you, when did you first join the LGPS, and is all of your NHS service pre LGPS?

Nebulous2

Silvertabby wrote: »

How old are you, when did you first join the LGPS, and is all of your NHS service pre LGPS?

Thanks very much for responding.

I'm 57, all my NHS service was prior to lgps. NHS scheme 85 to 93. Had a gap of a year then lgps 94 to 2002 in Scotland, 2002 to 2011 in London scheme. Finally 2012 to present in a Scottish scheme. All pension transferred each time.

Two breaks of a year, one in 93 with a change of career and an enforced one in 2011 as my company took me out of the scheme. No breaks in employment since 94.

Silvertabby

Nebulous2 wrote: »

Thanks very much for responding.

I'm 57, all my NHS service was prior to lgps. NHS scheme 85 to 93. Had a gap of a year then lgps 94 to 2002 in Scotland, 2002 to 2011 in London scheme. Finally 2012 to present in a Scottish scheme. All pension transferred each time.

Two breaks of a year, one in 93 with a change of career and an enforced one in 2011 as my company took me out of the scheme. No breaks in employment since 94.

Leaving the NHS/joining the LGPS before 1 April 1998 was the magic date I was looking for.

Based on on your date of birth, only your pre 2008 benefits will have R85 protections, with your benefits accrued from 1 April 2008 onwards being fully reduced for early payment should you take your pension before 65/SPA.

Based on your dates of service, looks like you will hit R85 next year - but full protections in respect of your pre 2008 benefits only kick in from age 60 without your employer's consent.

HOWEVER, and this is a big however, you have some ins and outs with the Scottish LGPS. The rules between the Scottish and English/Welsh LGPS are broadly similar, but there are certain differences that I'm not totally conversant with.

I would speak to your current LGPS provider to ask them to check your 'service history' screen on their database, to check exactly which lines of service have been recorded as contributing to R85. They should also be able to confirm (hopefully!) that your pre 2008 benefits would be payable unreduced from age 60.

Nebulous2

Silvertabby wrote: »

Leaving the NHS/joining the LGPS before 1 April 1998 was the magic date I was looking for.

Based on on your date of birth, only your pre 2008 benefits will have R85 protections, with your benefits accrued from 1 April 2008 onwards being fully reduced for early payment should you take your pension before 65/SPA.

Based on your dates of service, looks like you will hit R85 next year - but full protections in respect of your pre 2008 benefits only kick in from age 60 without your employer's consent.

HOWEVER, and this is a big however, you have some ins and outs with the Scottish LGPS. The rules between the Scottish and English/Welsh LGPS are broadly similar, but there are certain differences that I'm not totally conversant with.

I would speak to your current LGPS provider to ask them to check your 'service history' screen on their database, to check exactly which lines of service have been recorded as contributing to R85. They should also be able to confirm (hopefully!) that your pre 2008 benefits would be payable unreduced from age 60.

That's good news - thanks very much. I've contacted the scheme and asked for the information on R85.



It's unlikely that my employer would be willing to let me go before 60 anyway, but they are offering flexible retirement, which could mean I could reduce my hours and draw the pre 2009 part of my pension.

Silvertabby

Nebulous2 wrote: »

That's good news - thanks very much. I've contacted the scheme and asked for the information on R85.



It's unlikely that my employer would be willing to let me go before 60 anyway, but they are offering flexible retirement, which could mean I could reduce my hours and draw the pre 2009 part of my pension.

Do you mean flexible retirement before 60? If so, this is one of the events in which your employer has no choice but to pay some money into the scheme to plug the gap between meeting R85 and 60. If your employer hasn't handled many flexi requests, then they may not know that.

Nebulous2

Silvertabby wrote: »

Do you mean flexible retirement before 60? If so, this is one of the events in which your employer has no choice but to pay some money into the scheme to plug the gap between meeting R85 and 60. If your employer hasn't handled many flexi requests, then they may not know that.

Yes - they introduced information on their scheme last year, and several people have taken it up. With a middle-aged workforce they seem to see it as part of their workforce planning, to get more new people in. Most people who have taken it up would be 60+ though.

Silvertabby

Nebulous2 wrote: »

Yes - they introduced information on their scheme last year, and several people have taken it up. With a middle-aged workforce they seem to see it as part of their workforce planning, to get more new people in. Most people who have taken it up would be 60+ though.

Then they may not realise that letting people go on flexi before 60 could result in a bill. In theory, the first stage of flexi approval would be for the employer to request a pension forecast. Details of any employer costs involved would also be supplied at that stage.