Money Moral Dilemma: Should I start spending more to go plastic-free?

jwil

determined_new_ms wrote: »

It is hard and we don't have loads of money so have to draw a balance. And really until industry & governments really want to deal with this there is very little the individual can do to change this sitution.

I am intending on writing to MP & supermarkets asking for their support in this issue/reducing plastic pakaging

There are a series of consultations out at the moment on waste and recycling in the UK. You can have your say through these

Consistency in collections https://consult.defra.gov.uk/environmental-quality/consultation-on-consistency-in-household-and-busin/

Reforming packaging producer responsibility (includes about sustainable design and increasing recyclability) https://consult.defra.gov.uk/environmental-quality/consultation-on-reforming-the-uk-packaging-produce/

Deposit return scheme https://consult.defra.gov.uk/environment/introducing-a-deposit-return-scheme/

Plastic packaging tax https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/plastic-packaging-tax

The results from these consultations will impact all the supermarkets and things you buy so it's worth having your say

blue12

It shouldn't cost more to "do the right thing". The "standard thing", whether plastic packaging, organic, palm oil free, or any other qualifier usually has hidden costs not reflected in the price- environmental degradation, human exploitation, etc. so the more of us that switch, the less of those things there will be. My rule is I will grudgingly pay 10%, rarely up to 20% more, but never more than that. I don't want to encourage companies to rip me off for the privilege of doing the right thing when the actual costs of them changing their production or packaging costs are actually far less, particularly as more options become available. Of course, for those who are very constrained by all expenses, I suggest shopping carefully to get the best product/value/ethics for the price being charged. Each of us can do something, even if it's modest! Even if you can't afford more you can discuss the problem with vendors, write letters, pick up litter, encourage/commiserate others, etc.

natlie

I am an environmentalist and I have worked with a retailer on research for their plastic free campaign. Personally I am still buying things that come in some plastic. Food - food waste is a much bigger issue than plastic waste but does not garner such interest, I would be completely for removing plastic from food if we didnt waste a third of all food produced globally

Cleaning products, I bulk buy Bio D, their products come in 100% recycled plastic bottles- I recycle them in Wales 80% of plastic bottles are captured for recycling

Diet, I am vegan, my food comes with very little packaging. 50% of marine plastic is from the fishing industry

In Blue Planet David (the clip with the whale and the baby) Attenborough said:

'In top predators like these, industrial chemicals can build up to lethal levels, and plastic could be part of the problem.

'As plastic breaks down, it combines with these other pollutants which are consumed by vast numbers of other marine creatures. It's possible her calf may have been poisoned by her own contaminated milk.'

Sir David then continued with a message about how plastics were threatening marine life, saying: 'Unless the flow of plastics and industrial pollution into the world's oceans is reduced, marine life will be poisoned by them for many centuries to come.

These industrial pollutants and chemicals are consumed along with plastic and as whales eat large amounts of fish that have consumed these pollutants they are poisoned and it can pass through milk.

Other environmentalists have shared the view that this was not picked up by the public or the media after the show, just the plastics. The industrial pollution they refer to is run off from large scale agriculture which has caused a dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico, primarily caused by fertilizer and sewage that wash off farmland.

Reducing meat and fish in your diet and making sure you are recycling properly will have a much bigger impact and save you some money

Nat

Wizzbang

REJP wrote: »

Am I missing something?
My local council provides a bin to put all plastic in so that it can be recycled.
You make your own decision in the end, so it is up to you if you want to buy plastic free goods or not.
Like other posters I have found buying loose products is considerably more expensive than buying in plastic, but if you can afford it make your own mind up. This is not a dilemma if you dispose of plastic containers for recycling if the service is available in your area. The problem arises when thoughtless people dump it in ditches or rivers.

Loose fruit and veg is usually cheaper, even in supermarkets if you compare by kg. Occasionally not, if there's a really good special offer. And it's always miles cheaper to buy loose in your local greengrocer or market!

You completely misunderstand the problem of plastic and plastic pollution. Recycling is not a closed loop system, the plastic is degraded every time it is recycled, until it has to be dumped in landfill. You've been brainwashed by our Government unfortunately.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/plastic-waste-wish-recycling-bins-black-environment-green-shopping-a8548736.html

Wizzbang

jwil wrote: »

It's not as simple as 'all plastic is bad' though, and some of the knee jerk reactions to programmes such as the Blue Planet are actually going to cause more harm to the planet than plastic.

Most of the plastic going into the ocean is coming from countries without suitable waste management facilities, people who are littering or the fishing industry. It's not coming from the plastic you are putting in your recycling or rubbish. Many people in the world have no access to waste facilities so their rubbish is just dumped. There are a number of organisations out there trying to help resolve this including waste aid https://wasteaid.org/responding-global-waste-management-crisis/

Biodegradable and compostable plastics are not the solution. They do not break down quickly - particularly in the ocean, and when they do break down into smaller fragments which are just as harmful to wildlife. They are a contaminant in the recycling stream, so should just be put in the rubbish bin. Biodegradable materials break down to create methane in landfill, so if your rubbish is sent to landfill, you are harming the environment by putting biodegradable material in there be that biodegradable plastic, food, paper, or textiles. It's also incredibly questionable that we should be producing packaging materials from plants, and therefore using precious growing land for packaging! https://www.isonomia.co.uk/is-it-time-to-switch-to-biodegradable-plastics/

An automatic reaction is to find paper/cardboard or glass alternatives. These materials are heavier than plastic and so there are increased carbon emissions through transporting them. This can offset any material benefit. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47027792

Plastic bottles are a high quality material, and in demand from reprocessors. They can be recycled into other bottles, so closed loop recycling. Other plastic packaging can be more problematic, but there are other issues involved. Plastic packaging can help reduce food waste, which is not only a moral issue, it's a big environmental issue with huge carbon impact. The plastic around a cucumber extends it's life compared to an unwrapped one and therefore reduces waste. However, there are other items for which wrapping is certainly not needed (cabbages, swede etc).https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/features/a-lesson-in-packaging-myths-is-shrink-wrap-on-a-cucumber-really-mindless-waste-8340812.html

People think they should switch from plastic milk bottles to glass ones. However, a glass one (being heavier) needs to be reused 20 times before it is environmentally better than a plastic bottle. According to WRAP, the average glass milk bottle is only reused 18 times, not enough to be better than plastic. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43724314

When looking for alternatives, we need to think about the whole life cycle of the product, not just what it's made from or how it's disposed. There are no easy solutions. One of the most important things is never to litter (and that includes cigarette ends which people don't seem to consider litter but which are most likely to make it to the sea through drains etc) https://globalnews.ca/news/4418956/cigarette-butts-ocean-pollution-ban/ , reuse stuff as much as possible, reduce consumption and dispose of your waste responsibly!

Sadly some of your information is incorrect. There really is no such thing as closed loop recycling, as far as plastic goes. A closed loop plastic system relies entirely on consumers buying other products made from recycled plastic. Any kind of plastic degrades every time it is recycled and thus, cannot be made into the same thing again. Therefore, for example, a PET milk bottle must become synthetic clothing (one example), in order to be re-used. If you buy that and wash it in your washing machine, you are responsible for releasing millions of microfibres into the our water systems. You will contaminate fish and the very water we drink as there is no way these microscopic plastics can be filtered. Hence why we must only use essential plastics in the future.

I do feel that plastic wrapped cucumbers etc only help those lazy enough not to plan their food purchases in advance. Or, those who are too lazy to wash fruit and veg, or weigh it themselves. There really is no excuse for that kind of plastic use.

Glass is a different matter, as it can endlessly be melted down and made into new glass products, with no degradation.

Carlakoala

I know that we are all driven by `what is this worth to me'. Usually that is financial. But sometimes it is what is it worth to our moral self, to our conscience. And that is sometimes at a personal financial cost. And we all have to weigh it up for ourselves -making the balanced decision by what we can afford financially while working within our conscience.

jwil

Wizzbang wrote: »

Sadly some of your information is incorrect. There really is no such thing as closed loop recycling, as far as plastic goes. A closed loop plastic system relies entirely on consumers buying other products made from recycled plastic. Any kind of plastic degrades every time it is recycled and thus, cannot be made into the same thing again. Therefore, for example, a PET milk bottle must become synthetic clothing (one example), in order to be re-used. If you buy that and wash it in your washing machine, you are responsible for releasing millions of microfibres into the our water systems. You will contaminate fish and the very water we drink as there is no way these microscopic plastics can be filtered. Hence why we must only use essential plastics in the future.

I do feel that plastic wrapped cucumbers etc only help those lazy enough not to plan their food purchases in advance. Or, those who are too lazy to wash fruit and veg, or weigh it themselves. There really is no excuse for that kind of plastic use.

Glass is a different matter, as it can endlessly be melted down and made into new glass products, with no degradation.

No it's not incorrect. Plastic is recycled into new bottles and food grade packaging. Coca cola use rPET in their bottles as do many other companies including M&S. Milk bottles are HDPE and again contain recycled milk bottles in their content - they are aiming for 50% rHDPE by 2020. The plastic packaging tax mentioned above is for packaging that contains less than 30% recycled content. It aims to stimulate the recycling markets and make recycled plastic more competitively priced compared to virgin plastic - which has been part of the issue - it's cheaper to use virgin material than recycled.

I agree that plastic is not infinitely recyclable, and I agree about microfibre shedding. Clothing is another big environmental issue.

Not everyone can shop daily. It's not 'laziness'. Food waste is a massive problem, bigger than plastic. Most food is wasted before it gets to the consumer. Plastic packaging helps reduce that. There are definitely some things that should not be packaged, but some do need it.

Pre-prepped veg is also not always 'laziness'. Some people have health issues and disabilities which mean they cannot prep veg themselves.

Glass is infinitely recyclable (as is metal), but it is very heavy so produces a great deal more transport carbon emissions than plastic. Like my original post said - there is no simple answer. We need to look at the whole life cycle of products to see what the solution is, not just focus on what it's made of.

sctoeop

Hey,

I notice a lot of people mentioning Lush but I also found this excellent small business called Veauty. This business only stocks vegan & cruelty free products, of which some are organic also, and some of their ranges are plastic free. The website can be found by searching Veauty(dot)co(dot)uk or search Veauty on Google and social media via @veautyuk.

Lifes_Grand_Plan

TinaMT wrote: »

Hi! I switched from liquid shampoo to a Lush shampoo bar on 2nd January and I’m still using the same bar so it has saved me money in the long run. I have long hair and wash every other day. I have enough left for roughly a week so 3 months usage per bar is pretty cost effective.
I have lots of other low cost, plastic-free switches on my Instagram page if you would like to check it out - anti_plastic_life
Being environmentally friendly doesn’t need to be more expensive at all :j
Hope this helps!

Just followed you on Insta and realised you live the other side of the A38 from me... Small world!:j

CapricornLass

I agree with Carlakoala - its as much a moral decision as it is a finanial one. However, there is also something else - altering your behaviour so that you don't need to use things that come in plastic so often or reduce your use of single use plastics.


Eg: you don't need to wash your hair everyday - once a week is fine (although if you currently wash your hair everyday, then I would gradually work up to once a week over a couple of months). My doctor put me wise to that one. It means that a bootle of shampoo and conditioner lasts for far longer, you are therefore not buying so much and the amount of plastic that you have used is reduced. Also, do you use more shampoo than you really need each time?


Its not just shampoo and conditioner either. Ruth Goodman wrote in one of her books that our ancestors, who had less access to soap and water because the first was expensive and the second had to be be fetched from the well in a bucket each day, used to rub their bodies vigorously with a cloth everyday to keep themselves smelling sweet. She tried it out for herself for several months, and found that it worked - no nasty smells, and her skin kept in very good condition. I tried it too, using a clean flannel every day, and yes, gross as it sounds, it really does work, even in a summer as hot as last year.