Is a 'No Cash' society a threat?

letitbe90

A cashless society is good for many reasons. Even convenience of giving someone a quick £10 will be as simple as texting them the money.


People are just resistant to change for the sake of it, especially old people. Digital money is not rocket science, even old/vulnerable people do far more complex tasks every day than using electronic payment.

Guerillatoker

Won't any body think of the drug dealers?

Nah but genuinely it is a bit worrying; imagine waking up one day to find your wallet has been 'blocked' and cannot be used without you fulfilling some arbitrary actions by your 'wallet-provider' - especially if you're not particularly tech savvy, or intellectually disabled and unable to deal with your 'wallet provider' alone.

Apart from the obvious risk, the idea of a cashless society sounds good. I currently live in a mostly cash-less manner.

letitbe90

Guerillatoker wrote: »

Won't any body think of the drug dealers?

Nah but genuinely it is a bit worrying; imagine waking up one day to find your wallet has been 'blocked' and cannot be used without you fulfilling some arbitrary actions by your 'wallet-provider' - especially if you're not particularly tech savvy, or intellectually disabled and unable to deal with your 'wallet provider' alone.

Apart from the obvious risk, the idea of a cashless society sounds good. I currently live in a mostly cash-less manner.

How often does that happen to people? I think in my lifetime maybe twice - and it is all resolved by a call or a visit to a branch.


Now, if we look at the issues of cash (can be lost, stolen, used for criminal activity without trace, huge means of tax avoidance which has a downstream effect on all parts of society), that seems far more of a problem, than my card not working on the rare occasion.


I am far more inconvenienced in life when someone doesn't accept card and now I have to find a bloody ATM machine and hope it doesn't charge...

Guerillatoker

letitbe90 wrote: »

How often does that happen to people? I think in my lifetime maybe twice - and it is all resolved by a call or a visit to a branch.

I don't know how often it happens or if that number will increase as the number of people being "cashless" increases, but neither do you, so it is not a terribly strong assessment of the risk.

It also still doesn't address people who may not be able to call or go to branch for extraneous reasons.

What if they have no credit and no fuel, how do they call / get to branch?

What if they have a disability that makes a call/visit very difficult or impossible? (Assuming they are able enough to have financial responsibility, which is not unheard of at all).


I understand the risks with cash, but pushing those risks onto the more vulnerable in society may not be ethical. Though I'm not being an absolutist here, I think the risks can be addressed, just will be wary of cashless society until they have.


EDIT: I forgot to add, what if your 'wallet' is switched off for political reasons? What recourse would you have other than the courts, which costs money?

Herzlos

kabayiri wrote: »

It's getting harder to use cash in parts of China. That WeChat thing seemed to be everywhere.

Yet it's almost impossible to use anything but cash in Japan. Cultures will vary wildly and most of the Western resistance will be based on habit.


However, without any easy peer-to-peer transfers, cash will still have a place. These days I almost only use it for the occasional take away, at markets and such, and may often go a whole pay cycle without lifting any.


I think most likely we're going to see small (1p/2p coins) and large (£50 notes) removed from circulation. I'm sure somewhere has the 5p equivalent as the smallest coin - goods are still priced to the nearest 1p but for cash it's rounded up to the 5p at the checkout. (so if the total is £10.03 you'd get stung for 2p). Large transactions are likely digital now anyway, so there's few people benefit from using a stack of £50's over a stack of £20's. I think I've maybe deal with £50 notes about 3 times in my lifetime.

Herzlos

Guerillatoker wrote: »

Won't any body think of the drug dealers?

Black market stuff will probably go to trading goods (gold, electronics or something) that can then be sold back into digital-money. Or it'll go through a fake account or just get laundered on the spot.

CKhalvashi

Herzlos wrote: »

Yet it's almost impossible to use anything but cash in Japan. Cultures will vary wildly and most of the Western resistance will be based on habit.


However, without any easy peer-to-peer transfers, cash will still have a place. These days I almost only use it for the occasional take away, at markets and such, and may often go a whole pay cycle without lifting any.


I think most likely we're going to see small (1p/2p coins) and large (£50 notes) removed from circulation. I'm sure somewhere has the 5p equivalent as the smallest coin - goods are still priced to the nearest 1p but for cash it's rounded up to the 5p at the checkout. (so if the total is £10.03 you'd get stung for 2p). Large transactions are likely digital now anyway, so there's few people benefit from using a stack of £50's over a stack of £20's. I think I've maybe deal with £50 notes about 3 times in my lifetime.

Georgia and Bosnia have no small coins.

In Bosnia, the smallest is 0,05KM, in Georgia 1 and 2 tetri coins are around (I have a small number from bigger shops) but many places round up to 5 as they aren’t in common circulation.

I only use cash in Eastern Europe, but in the UK very rarely need it as most places actually prefer all but the smallest transactions to be paid by card, likely as it reduces their costs overall. In Ukraine (for example) the only realistic card processing company is Privatbank, so there isn’t competition like in the U.K. In Georgia there are only about 3 banks (to the best of my knowledge) offering this service, and most businesses go with whoever they bank with (Bank of Georgia and TBC are both London-listed companies and have the biggest market share), again reducing competition.

I was in a shop this afternoon that was broken into last week and cashlessness is easier for them at least. My average transaction is probably £7-8 there, but reasonably that could be £7-800 throughout the day, which could cost them my transaction to bank the cash and even more to get coins for change. A card machine likely costs less than £10 throughout the day, so saves money overall.

Businesses don’t get free banking and have to bear banking costs, this is important to remember.

Spidernick

I was reminded of why I sometimes hate cash in my local Iceland today. The old couple in front of me spent £10.27, gave a £20 note to the cashier and then spent a good two minutes cobbling together the 27p to get a tenner back. It is highly inefficient and wastes so much time. My transaction on a card was so much quicker.

I appreciate that some people like to use cash for budgeting reasons, but there are ways around this (spreadsheets, etc.). I very rarely use cash (it's usually something to do with a pound for a non-uniform day at the kids school, things like that) and wouldn't mourn the end of cash at all.

phillw

Spidernick wrote: »

I was reminded of why I sometimes hate cash in my local Iceland today. The old couple in front of me spent £10.27, gave a £20 note to the cashier and then spent a good two minutes cobbling together the 27p to get a tenner back. It is highly inefficient and wastes so much time. My transaction on a card was so much quicker.

The other day I was stuck behind someone who got their pin wrong & then started trying different cards.

LHW99

How easy will it be to teach young children the basics of money if there is only digital? It strikes me it would be rather like the days when they were allowed to have calculators in primary school without being taught how to do basic arithmetic first.