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Silver coinage without gold standard?
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James_Green_1982 wrote: »I don't follow this argument.
I would say that the value of houses measured in ounces of silver (or gold) is their true value. This can be measured over time. Whatever happens to a fiat currency should have no direct effect on how many ounces a house is worth.
You don’t understand the valuation Chanel.
Take fiat currency out of the equation.
Just measure stuff with stuff. You will then see real things go from overvalued to undervalued and then back again.
In 1980 an average house was worth several hundred ounces of silver in the western world. Or this many barrels of oil, or this many bushels of wheat.
Today an average house in the western world is valued at over 40,000 ounces of silver. This clearly shows property is overvalued and silver way u dervalued historically speaking.
Things always go from undervalued to overvalued and then back again. This is a valuation channel, and you have to take fiat currency out of the equation and measure stuff with stuff to get a clear picture.Nothing has been fixed since 2008, it was just pushed into the future0 -
These days it will be more like a silver back digital crypto currency.
People would far prefer to use a silver backed digital curb than an unbacked one like bitcoin and all.
You would have to have the option of physical silver or digital, so small silver coin in circulation as well as digital, and the digital component would have to be redeemable for physical.
The problem is maybe silver is too rare now to use as a global monetary system, on entire ounce would be more valuable than a house, when historically as many as 500 ounces should be valued at a house
Today, 500 ounces of silver would be worth approx £5,000.
That seems very cheap. ie that is a high value of silver relative to houses.
Where did you get your figures from?
I have actually looked back at the paper deeds for my house (over 100 years old) to try and find the original purchase price and compare to silver / gold prices at the time*
Unfortunately, the deeds only showed the mortgage amounts, so I couldn't calculate it.
*Yes, perhaps I do need to get out more...!0 -
You don’t understand the valuation Chanel.
Take fiat currency out of the equation.
Just measure stuff with stuff. You will then see real things go from overvalued to undervalued and then back again.
In 1980 an average house was worth several hundred ounces of silver in the western world. Or this many barrels of oil, or this many bushels of wheat.
Today an average house in the western world is valued at over 40,000 ounces of silver. This clearly shows property is overvalued and silver way u dervalued historically speaking.
Things always go from undervalued to overvalued and then back again. This is a valuation channel, and you have to take fiat currency out of the equation and measure stuff with stuff to get a clear picture.
Yes. I agree.
I think we are actually arguing the same point here.0 -
Silver certainly is cheaper than the alternative which is mainly gold
None of the coins we use today are made with gold, therefore that is what you need to compare prices against.Silver is money.
No it's not, you can sell it for money. Like you can with coconuts, coconuts aren't money either.James_Green_1982 wrote: »I don't see why more physical silver would need to be extracted from the ground in order to enable such a transaction to take place.
Because unless you have the silver to make the transaction then all you are doing is passing around promissory notes. How is silver then related at all? The value of silver is no longer controlling anything because you don't need it to perform transactions, the value of the promissory notes is more to do with confidence in the system. You've re-invented paper money.
You normally make your currency out of something worth less than it's face value, because you have to make the thing and if the value of the metal is more than the currency then people will melt it down (which is why they don't use silver and gold anymore)0 -
None of the coins we use today are made with gold, therefore that is what you need to compare prices against.
No it's not, you can sell it for money. Like you can with coconuts, coconuts aren't money either.
Because unless you have the silver to make the transaction then all you are doing is passing around promissory notes. How is silver then related at all? The value of silver is no longer controlling anything because you don't need it to perform transactions, the value of the promissory notes is more to do with confidence in the system. You've re-invented paper money.
But that amount of physical silver does exist. And the house does exist. Yes, you can use paper contracts etc - or you could take physical delivery of the silver. But either way it's surely the ratio of silver ounces to houses in question..?0 -
James_Green_1982 wrote: »But that amount of physical silver does exist.
Right, like money exists. I can't buy a house just because someone else has money in their account though, you have to have a controlling interest in it. I don't see how you can control silver if you haven't dug it up. What stops someone else from just digging up the silver?James_Green_1982 wrote: »But either way it's surely the ratio of silver ounces to houses in question..?
If you gave me a promissory note to buy my house but everyone else was demanding physical silver when I was trying to buy things then I would increase the price to cover the inconvenience that I would somehow need to convert that promissory note.
The ratio of silver to houses would also not be fixed, it would be based on which people want to buy the house and how much silver (or promissory notes for silver) they have access to.
You've pretty much described fiat.0 -
James_Green_1982 wrote: »Today, 500 ounces of silver would be worth approx £5,000.
That seems very cheap. ie that is a high value of silver relative to houses.
Where did you get your figures from?
I have actually looked back at the paper deeds for my house (over 100 years old) to try and find the original purchase price and compare to silver / gold prices at the time*
Unfortunately, the deeds only showed the mortgage amounts, so I couldn't calculate it.
*Yes, perhaps I do need to get out more...!
1980 silver was £50oz and average house prices were about 700x that.
Today silver is temporarily all the way down to £12oz
Can you name any other commodity or any investment that is less than a quart the price is was in 1980?
It's also good to compare average house prices to oil and other commodities over the several decadesNothing has been fixed since 2008, it was just pushed into the future0 -
None of the coins we use today are made with gold, therefore that is what you need to compare prices against.
No it's not, you can sell it for money. )
You can sell silver for currency.
Currencies come and go but always 100% guaranteed go to their true integral value of nothing. This always has happened and always will.
The integral value of silver I why it lays hs been for thousands of years. One tenth of an ounce I worth a 12hr days wage.
Gold and silver are money and can never ever go to nothing.
Everything else ever used as a medium of exchange is just currency.Nothing has been fixed since 2008, it was just pushed into the future0 -
You can sell silver for currency.
You can sell anything for currency, coconuts, yourself, etcThe integral value of silver I why it lays hs been for thousands of years. One tenth of an ounce I worth a 12hr days wage.
Gold and silver are money and can never ever go to nothing.
Gold and silver are commodities.Everything else ever used as a medium of exchange is just currency.
definition of money: a current medium of exchange in the form of coins and banknotes; coins and banknotes collectively.
definition of currency: a system of money in general use in a particular country.
I think you are incorrect in your use of the term money.0 -
You can sell anything for currency, coconuts, yourself, etc
Gold and silver are commodities.
definition of money: a current medium of exchange in the form of coins and banknotes; coins and banknotes collectively.
definition of currency: a system of money in general use in a particular country.
I think you are incorrect in your use of the term money.
Currency and money have all the same attributes except currency slowly loses value eventually to nothing, and money holds its value over thousands of yearsNothing has been fixed since 2008, it was just pushed into the future0
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