Are workers a resource or a burden...?

James_Green_1982

martinthebandit wrote: »

But it does increase the amount of training your willing to invest in a person.

I am employed in the public sector and this is a topic hardly discussed.
10 years ago mandatory training was conducted during work hours (at cost to the employer).
Now it is mostly conducted online during the employee's own unpaid time (ie at cost to the employee).

So in effect - a major stealth wage cut for employees.

phillw

martinthebandit wrote: »

But it does increase the amount of training your willing to invest in a person.

Not necessarily, it depends on the industry. You may instead choose to move the job to another country instead. It's never as simple as people like to make out.

Unskilled workers come to your country because there are unskilled jobs that require filling. I agree that it can contribute towards illegal working conditions, but without the foreign workers then those illegal working conditions will still exist to an extent.

martinthebandit

phillw wrote: »

Not necessarily, it depends on the industry. You may instead choose to move the job to another country instead. It's never as simple as people like to make out.

Unskilled workers come to your country because there are unskilled jobs that require filling. I agree that it can contribute towards illegal working conditions, but without the foreign workers then those illegal working conditions will still exist to an extent.

I agree there is no simple solution (including just letting in as many unskilled workers as wanted)

It's not just about illegal working but rather all the added extras that employers have to pay for when workers are in short supply, including safety, conditions, pay etc etc.

phillw

martinthebandit wrote: »

I agree there is no simple solution (including just letting in as many unskilled workers as wanted)

That is the simplest solution to a large segment of the job market.

Quite a lot of skilled workers come and fill unskilled jobs because they have an attribute that local workers don't have, they aren't lazy or afraid of work. There are very few unskilled jobs that require zero abilities, it's rather unfair that we even classify them as unskilled.

martinthebandit wrote: »

It's not just about illegal working but rather all the added extras that employers have to pay for when workers are in short supply, including safety, conditions, pay etc etc.

Which all affects profitability. Having a lack of workers because you cut off supply when the economy is tanking won't have the desired effect. The tipping point is very finely balanced.

martinthebandit

phillw wrote: »

Which all affects profitability. Having a lack of workers because you cut off supply when the economy is tanking won't have the desired effect. The tipping point is very finely balanced.

I agree that it is a matter of balance and also agree that we should not cut of the supply of workers, we should just control (or balance it) to ensure that profitability, for both employees and employer is maintained.

phillw

martinthebandit wrote: »

we should just control (or balance it) to ensure that profitability, for both employees and employer is maintained.

Applying controls will fail because it's costly and because it will be too slow to react to demand.

We've been doing pretty well up to now, this whole obsession with controlling immigration will ultimately be shown for what it truly is.

martinthebandit

phillw wrote: »

We've been doing pretty well up to now

Not sure who the 'we' is your referring to as, clearly, the majority in the referendum disagreed with you.

phillw

martinthebandit wrote: »

Not sure who the 'we' is your referring to as, clearly, the majority in the referendum disagreed with you.

My statement is correct.

You're making the mistake of assuming why they voted to leave & whether it was rational.

Sure their lives could be better but the people who thought their lives were bad because of foreigners coming here were wrong both logically and morally. It'll be interesting to see whether they are just as angry when they find their lives will get worse.

James_Green_1982

phillw wrote: »

Not necessarily, it depends on the industry. You may instead choose to move the job to another country instead. It's never as simple as people like to make out.

Unskilled workers come to your country because there are unskilled jobs that require filling. I agree that it can contribute towards illegal working conditions, but without the foreign workers then those illegal working conditions will still exist to an extent.

If a company can take jobs abroad they will (eg call centres). Market forces will usually dictate that. But you can't move care workers or shelf stackers abroad.

martinthebandit

phillw wrote: »

My statement is correct.

You're making the mistake of assuming why they voted to leave & whether it was rational.

Sure their lives could be better but the people who thought their lives were bad because of foreigners coming here were wrong both logically and morally. It'll be interesting to see whether they are just as angry when they find their lives will get worse.

......and I'm the one making assumptions?