Change to export payments after smart meter install?

Zarch

I was on the EDF site looking to book a smart meter install. I'm not really interested in the pros and cons of smart meters as there are enough threads for that. :mad:

What i'm interested in discussing is the following I found just before I was asked to hit submit and book the appointment.

EDF_website wrote:

Do you generate your own energy?
If you generate your own electricity from a renewable source (for example, by installing solar panels) and are therefore receiving Feed in Tariff (FiT) payments, you will need to let your FiT Licensee know that you are getting a smart meter. If EDF Energy is your FiT Licensee, we will contact you in due course. Your FiT export payments will change from a standard rate to metered payments based on the actual amount of electricity exported.

At the moment, my FiT contract (like most I assume?) is I get paid for 100% of what I generate (current paltry rate of 3.9p) and then 50% of that as 'deemed' usage (at 5.2p) as they have no real way to know what I do or don't use.

So are EDF saying that once the smart meter goes in they can reliably determine what i'm exporting? And i'll stop getting the 'deemed' 50% and move to being paid for what I actually export?

Can they change my/our contract without my consent and agreement?

If so, the next thought is would us as solar users be better off getting paid for everything we export?

I've been looking at the figures for the past week during this better spell of sunshine and i've used 19%, 41%, 54%, 33%, 34%, 34% and 21% of what i've generated.

So only one day i've used more than 50% (and I really tried that day with the washing machine and tumble drier). It was like there was just too much solar to use!!

Over the years are people using less or more than 50%? I've only got 5 months worth of data to go on.

I've reached out to the EDF green team for them to clarify the FIT situation post smart meter, but I would be interested to hear folks thoughts on the future of export payments?

Does this eventually end up with these new on-demand contracts with energy companies bidding for your electricity?

Hexane

My FiT Licensee are Scottish Power, who also pay for my deemed exports, and my impression is that the chance of them being ready to "change from a standard rate to metered payments based on the actual amount of electricity exported" is about zero. They can't even manage to bill me regularly for my imports based on what my smart meter is supposedly telling them, and the "smart consumption" page on their website has had various wordings of "under construction" on it for nearly a year now. Their FiT registration process claims to have an 8-week backlog, in practice it appears to be running at 10 weeks backlogged, in addition to various bugs in it. From comments in other threads, some other suppliers are in just as much of a mess.


Various energy suppliers including Scottish Power have previously said that while smart meters may have an advertised and displayed ability to record export as well as recording import, they have or had no plans to use this ability because its accuracy had never been certified fit for use. I'm not sure how EDF would be able to have confidence that their smart meter, would fit whatever certification is required by your FiT licensee, especially if they don't know who that is.


Perhaps the loosely worded "Your FiT export payments will change" just means that it is expected to change... some time in the future... perhaps five years from now?

Crowmann

It was always within the framework to allow the power returned to the grid to be measured and paid for - the difficulty was smart meters had not been installed at that point so deemed export was set at 50% - you know the rest.

My most recent take was that export was still not measurable via smart to the recognised standard and for that reason export would be deemed rather than measured irrespective of a smart meter. Your post suggests this will not be the case with EDF and I suspect them all in time.

For me this would be bad news. Except for the warmest four months of the year we send back less than 5% to the grid - using an iBoost plus to heat water and a large storage heater. Only in June-August (assume warm summer) do we send back around 75%.

Over the year the iBoost diverts 2400 Kwh, and base load / appliances of around 1400 Kw - we generate circa 4500Kw per year.

On those fairly accurate numbers we throw back around 15% and thats only because we switch off the storage heater (it can take 24Kw from cold).

joefizz

Over here in Northern Ireland they started paying for actual export units in July last year.
They had said they were thinking of introducing it and to submit values last July 'just in case'...
Got the payment this week for the actual export (I exported more than the deemed figure).
Ive had a proper import/export meter since Oct 2017 (a month after installation).



It was only a matter of time before they cottoned on with all the iboosts etc that people were getting paid money for nothing.


PS should have said its not a smart meter but a two display import/export meter

pinnks

E.ON say their smart meters are not calibrated and you remain on deemed export. Good to see there is consistency and clarity for customers....

mmmmikey

Zarch wrote: »

I've reached out to the EDF green team for them to clarify the FIT situation post smart meter, but I would be interested to hear folks thoughts on the future of export payments?

Hi - when you get a response from EDF could you post what they say back here, please? Thanks


In answer to your question, I don't have accurate figures but I do know with a fair degree of certainty that for about 6 months of the year I export virtually nothing because I have an immersion heater controller that uses anything spare. So I suspect I would be worse off if I moved from deemed to metered export payments.

Ectophile

Last time I contacted EDF, their smart meters were not calibrated for export. So even though they measured export, the readings could not be used. But that was in the days of SMETS-1 meters. Things may have changed now that SMETS-2 is being rolled out.


The rules on export payments are quite clear. If you have an export meter, then that meter must be used to measure exports. You cannot stay on the 50% deemed export. That's not EDF changing your contract - it's EDF following the rules.


The actual FIT payment should not change as that is paid based on your generation meter. It's the extra export payment that changes.

Obukit

Not to pull the rug under people's feet, but I think it would be good in general if it changed. I wrote to my MP to say the same- solar panels are so cheap now that we should be inventivising people to install the maximum number possible by paying the same price for export as import. If you install solar panels the relative cost of adding extra panels is fairly low compared to the initial outlay.

Since I've had my panels I've been in the strange situation of thinking I might as well switch the electric heater on, seeing as I have spare energy. Of course I'm not cold and wouldn't do it normally - but human nature is you feel you should use something if it's free. Not eco friendly though.

Zarch

I spoke to someone in the EDF Green Team this morning to clarify the situation.

She said that long term everyone will end up on metered export and this directive has come from OFGEN and not the energy companies.

With those on smart meters will be the first to move over to metered export.

BUT, she said that whilst trials are currently on-going with a handful of EDF customers, at present there are no immediate plans to move those with smart meters on to metered exports. She said this would be a phased approached, but could give no timescales on when. Maybe months, maybe even longer.

EDF customers would be contacted by the Green Team in due course.

Obviously, other FIT providers may have different approaches.

nobby1963

Hi,
I’m with EDF but currently ( since June ish last year ) only for our FIT payments.
Previously and for always prior, was with them for electricity supply also and had a smart meter fitted probably a couple of years ago now.
I can confirm that for us at least we have always had the payment for the estimated 50% export.
Prior to having the smart meter fitted I had an ‘off the record ‘ chat with a manager in the green team at EDF and was told that there were no plans ( at that point at least ) to use actual export figures due to the early days of the technology and the complications they saw in using actual figures for a relatively small gain.

tlsambo

So what happens if you add an extension to your existing array (this can be done I assure you). If this extension goes through a different inverter and does not therefore use the same Total Generation Meter, how will they know what export is from the original panels?

Also, if you buy a battery and choose a time of use tariff, charge the battery on cheap rate then sell some back to the grid at peak rate, how would they know if this is PV generated or from your battery?

Looks like deeming would be necessary in both cases.