Building Dynastic Wealth

aldershot

Clogs to clogs in three generations.

They’re only going to waste it so I might as well do it for them.

bostonerimus

justme111 wrote: »

Maxie, I find it disturbing that you advocate giving money to children but receiving care from state. He who cares gets the money , otherwise it's very unfair. Besides - what conditions do you think care homes would be if everyone thought like you ?

I don't see any issue with the state providing care homes, in way similar to the NHS, and people not having to spend money on them and leaving money to their heirs. Indeed until comparatively recently the NHS did just that.

LHW99

I don't see any issue with the state providing care homes, in way similar to the NHS, and people not having to spend money on them and leaving money to their heirs. Indeed until comparatively recently the NHS did just that.

The NHS provided "geriatric wards" and believe me, they were worse than most old people's homes.
However, I don't have a problem with the concept - provided people are prepared to be taxed / self insured instead to make sure all the provision is top class.

John_G_Jones

FatherAbraham wrote: »

It seems to me that many in the "Financial Independence - Retire Early" set their sights and ambitions way too low, merely looking to build a personal capital pot which is large enough - if luck be with them - to provide them with a lifetime annuity so they need never work again from the age of fourteen or somesuch.

I could not disagree more.

My wife and I are way past the point at which our children or grandchildren would ever need to work but we have no intention of letting them know that or making it happen.

Children knowing that they need not work is toxic. I’ve too many friends who were in that situation, or whose chi,drew were, and they are never as happy as those whose parents instead gave them all of the education, guidance, and moral support which they needed but then set them off to make their own way in the world.

Given your rather sneering view of people who have not established a legacy, is it something that you have done, or are you perhaps the beneficiary of a family legacy yourself?

maxie014

justme111 wrote: »

Maxie, I find it disturbing that you advocate giving money to children but receiving care from state. He who cares gets the money , otherwise it's very unfair. Besides - what conditions do you think care homes would be if everyone thought like you ?

Work hard,scrimp and save then have it all taken off you?
Dont work,save nothing and get the exact same care?
I wouldnt mind if there was some kind of universal tax of some kind so everyone paid into it,even if you end up not actually needing it.
There isnt much incentive not to blast everything rather than try and improve your families future if it all is taken off you in old age.

justme111

It's not " taken from you". It's you paying for service.
I can see your point re inequality. May be taxes is indeed the answer but I am sure if it was that way another group of people would be upset - the ones who's children are looking after them for example but they were forced to pay for their whole working life those taxes specifically for care ..

maxie014

justme111 wrote: »

It's not " taken from you". It's you paying for service.
I can see your point re inequality. May be taxes is indeed the answer but I am sure if it was that way another group of people would be upset - the ones who's children are looking after them for example but they were forced to pay for their whole working life those taxes specifically for care ..

Yes fair enough but i still find a couple of old codgers who probably sleep 18 hours a day being charged over 70k a year a bit of a rip off,the house is now for sale so most of my cousins inheritance probably down the gurgler!
Thats why its so hard for a lot of ordinary families to ever get ahead long term and get any dynastic wealth.

bostonerimus

maxie014 wrote: »

Yes fair enough but i still find a couple of old codgers who probably sleep 18 hours a day being charged over 70k a year a bit of a rip off,the house is now for sale so most of my cousins inheritance probably down the gurgler!
Thats why its so hard for a lot of ordinary families to ever get ahead long term and get any dynastic wealth.

The provision of care for the ageing in the UK needs serious improvement. Once you could usually get something provided by the NHS or local government at little to no cost and now that there's a means test families may have to pay large amounts in difficult circumstances. If low to zero cost care isn't going to be available then at least there needs to be a regulated market in long term care insurance. Right now maybe the best thing to do is for people to plan for end of life costs by buying something like a deferred annuity. Back when I was in my early 30s I bought long term care insurance that will pay a lifetime max of $350k for a care home. I did this as was single and an expat with no family where I live.

jamesd

FatherAbraham wrote: »

It seems to me that many in the "Financial Independence - Retire Early" set their sights and ambitions way too low, merely looking to build a personal capital pot ... Particularly amusing is the delight they take in financially castrating themselves by refusing to reproduce and issue offspring. "The fatal mistake of having children!" they write on their posts and blogs, blind to the fact that they've utterly missed the whole point. They note the saving, and overlook the cost.
...
The goal is not to sacrifice one's genetic immortality in order to provide backpacking tours of New Zealand for the rest of one's lifetime.

Generalising somewhat, I agree: FI is about finding a satisfying balance between now and the future, in part by curtailing expenses that don't deliver sufficient benefit.

Whether children deliver sufficient benefit is an individual choice. As are smoking and lots of drinking. OK to be happy about the savings, though.

fred246

Like many things it's about getting the balance right. I had a great childhood, I think my children have had a great childhood probably due to my wife more than me. I would like to think in future I will have grandchildren. It's up to individual but I always feel a bit sad when people don't want children. When I took early retirement the biggest question was "Do I carry on working and throw money to them?" A turning point was probably reading "the millionaire next door" with their "Economic Outpatient care" which basically said that if you give your children lots of money they will end up poorer. I could never earn enough that they didn't need to work. I have explained to them that renting a house is fine but at some point you need to buy your own house. They spend money but don't waste it and are accumulating enough for house deposits. I think my retirement has possibly been a positive influence. They think of pensioners as poor people and now realise that I won't be able to fund them forever.