Pay drop for those under 22

MEM62

Comms69 wrote: »

The downfall of unions is a travesty for the working class.

Ah, yes. Unions, the great saviour of the working class.

Here is a story from my Grandfather - a poorly educated but far from stupid man who left school at the age of 14. A hard-working manual worker all his life.

For many years of his working life he worked for AEC in Southall building Routemaster buses. Each year the union would call a strike to get pay rise. Each year he would loose two weeks money to get a ten shillings a week pay rise. Even he could see that that this annual pay rise never made up the money he lost by not working for two weeks. The majority of his colleagues on the other hand could only see the extra ten bob a week and thought the union were actually achieving something for them. "I just never understood it boy" he would say to me, "they don't do anything for me but cost me money", still baffled by the whole thing many years into retirement. There was much wisdom in that man.

I have absolutely no doubt that, at the time of their rise, unions, were desperately needed to protect even the most basic rights of the working class. But even by my grandfather's time that had changed and it remains the same today - a union serves it's own political agenda, not the needs of the working man.

Love you grandad and I miss you.

Comms69

MEM62 wrote: »

Ah, yes. Unions, the great saviour of the working class. Not.


Here is a story from my Grandfather - a poorly educated but far from stupid man who left school at the age of 14. A hard-working manual worker all his life.


For many years of his working life he worked for AEC in Southall building Routemaster buses. Each year the union would call a strike to get pay rise. Each year he would loose two weeks money to get a ten shillings a week pay rise. Even he could see that that this annual pay rise never made up the money he lost by not working for two weeks. The majority of his colleagues on the other hand could only see the extra ten bob a week and thought the union were actually achieving something for them. 'I just never understood it boy' he would say to me, still baffled by the whole thing many years into retirement.


Love you grandad and I miss you.

That's fine. But collective bargaining - such as at the NHS - has resulted in fairly significant pay rises for more than 1.3m workers.


If you aren't unionised, the employer only has to deal with one or two individuals

spadoosh

@Charlotte

I bought my house 7(nearly 8) years ago and i was 24. Things havent changed that much in 8 years. Youtube was massive then. Will and Kate got married. Bin laden shot dead. Im assuming at your age youre very aware of those events happening?

If you look at the numbers were talking a difference in earnings v cost of living between me 8 years ago and someone now being about 2% at most.

Im starting to sound like a proper MSE poster but minimum wage when i was 21 (10 years ago and the height of the GFC) was £3.57 vs £7.38 today (£7.70 this year).

You need to stop making excuses for them. It was exactly the same for me 10 years ago, young people spaff money, no commitment, want shiny things and dont want houses. Yet i did. And i got one.

Youve heard too much "young people cant afford x y and z" when the reality is most can, they just prefer to spend their money in different ways (i havent got a problem if you want to spend all your money on expensive cars, your perogative, but if you then complain about not being able to afford a house, im going to put you right on that, you can but you dont want to)

suki1964

Surely we are only talking of a few pound a month ( taken before tax Im assuming? )

Most people under 22 wouldn't even notice it gone, its less then the cost of a pint a lager a week

Comms69

suki1964 wrote: »

Surely we are only talking of a few pound a month ( taken before tax Im assuming? )

Most people under 22 wouldn't even notice it gone, its less then the cost of a pint a lager a week

Anyone already paying in wont notice any real difference in take home (but might in spending power) - increase contribution vs increase personal allowance

theoretica

MEM62 wrote: »

Ah, yes. Unions, the great saviour of the working class.

Here is a story from my Grandfather - a poorly educated but far from stupid man who left school at the age of 14. A hard-working manual worker all his life.

For many years of his working life he worked for AEC in Southall building Routemaster buses. Each year the union would call a strike to get pay rise. Each year he would loose two weeks money to get a ten shillings a week pay rise. Even he could see that that this annual pay rise never made up the money he lost by not working for two weeks. The majority of his colleagues on the other hand could only see the extra ten bob a week and thought the union were actually achieving something for them. "I just never understood it boy" he would say to me, "they don't do anything for me but cost me money", still baffled by the whole thing many years into retirement. There was much wisdom in that man.

I have absolutely no doubt that, at the time of their rise, unions, were desperately needed to protect even the most basic rights of the working class. But even by my grandfather's time that had changed and it remains the same today - a union serves it's own political agenda, not the needs of the working man.

Love you grandad and I miss you.

Or the Union had calculated the long term benefit - 2 weeks wages lost for a 10 shilling a week rise may not have been a good deal in isolation, but over the years and cumulatively it adds up. The £5 = 100 shilling higher pay a decade later would probably be worthwhile.

System

charlotte1994 wrote: »

I don't think people can compare their experiences to those of a 21 year old now. Wages have changed, inflation has changed, you get way less for your money. £400 16 years ago is the same as £620 in today's money. In 1980 if something cost £100 you would need £299 these days.

You're right they can't. When I left school it was at the highest level of unemployment both in percentage and actual number of people unemployed there has ever been in this country. Houses were cheap but double digit mortgage interest rates meant you needed two incomes as one income was taken up with just paying the mortgage, today you need just one and mortgage repayments are on average just 30% of pay. Tax credits didn't exist so if you had kids you were raising them on whatever your wages were, not your wages plus a few hundred quid a month in tax credits, a cheap pair of jeans was £10, the equivalent of over £25 today whereas today you can buy a pair in Primark for a fiver, a school uniform you can now buy in Asda for under £20 was a week's wages back when I was young. You actually get MORE for your money than you ever have done in the past thanks to globalisation and the even higher amount of automated manufacturing.

21 year olds today have never experienced that.

crackerberry

The tax free allowance also rises by £650 in April.

What reduction they see because of the pension contribution they'll gain back from the increased tax allowance and, depending on what salary they receive, may see a slight rise rather than a drop.

charlotte1994

spadoosh wrote: »

@Charlotte

I bought my house 7(nearly 8) years ago and i was 24. Things havent changed that much in 8 years. Youtube was massive then. Will and Kate got married. Bin laden shot dead. Im assuming at your age youre very aware of those events happening?

If you look at the numbers were talking a difference in earnings v cost of living between me 8 years ago and someone now being about 2% at most.

Im starting to sound like a proper MSE poster but minimum wage when i was 21 (10 years ago and the height of the GFC) was £3.57 vs £7.38 today (£7.70 this year).

You need to stop making excuses for them. It was exactly the same for me 10 years ago, young people spaff money, no commitment, want shiny things and dont want houses. Yet i did. And i got one.

Youve heard too much "young people cant afford x y and z" when the reality is most can, they just prefer to spend their money in different ways (i havent got a problem if you want to spend all your money on expensive cars, your perogative, but if you then complain about not being able to afford a house, im going to put you right on that, you can but you dont want to)

I'm sure a lot do, I'm thankful that I don't have a car as I wouldn't be able to afford it. I think the problem is that in a lot of areas there is a shortage of affordable housing, I am very lucky that I live in a cheap area (the only thing stopping me at the moment is that I have 0 savings in case of something going wrong, like the boiler breaking etc). But in a lot of places for every 25 houses only one will be affordable. I think it's bad that help to buy is only available for new builds, especially when the more affordable houses are the older houses, and the new builds are insanely expensive for what they are! Saving for a deposit takes a long time these days.

Comms69

charlotte1994 wrote: »

I'm sure a lot do, I'm thankful that I don't have a car as I wouldn't be able to afford it. I think the problem is that in a lot of areas there is a shortage of affordable housing, I am very lucky that I live in a cheap area (the only thing stopping me at the moment is that I have 0 savings in case of something going wrong, like the boiler breaking etc). But in a lot of places for every 25 houses only one will be affordable. I think it's bad that help to buy is only available for new builds, especially when the more affordable houses are the older houses, and the new builds are insanely expensive for what they are! Saving for a deposit takes a long time these days.

Define affordable.


Because really your issue is; as discussed elsewhere; that you earn NMW.