Expression Of Wish- Mother recently deceased

kelsawild1

Hi

I'm after some advice and hopefully someone who can explain this to me, as I feel like I'm going round in circles and nothing is making sense.

My mum passed away in November, I'm currently having to go through and sort all her finances etc and I'm getting really confused by her pension scheme.

She had a pension with Barclays, who she worked for, for 11 years. In 2013 (her normal retirement date) she took a lump sum of £6000, leaving her lifetime allowance at £47,507. This made her yearly pension allowance to be £2075.
So by my calculations, having a yearly pension of 2k-ish for 5 years, there should still be money in her pension pot to be payed out?

Mum didn't leave a will and I am her only next of kin (wasn't married, no other children). With her pension she did complete an expression of wish form, for which she put me down to receive a lump sum payable on death. This form had my correct address but had my maiden name on it.

I've contacted Barclays today to see if there is any monies owing to me, to be told there isn't. They say that because I am not a 'dependant' child I'm not entitled to it and that 'The Trustees' do not pay out to next of kins, only spouses and dependants.

This just feels so wrong to me. She earned her pension through working, she should be able to say what happens to what is left on her death. AND what happens to that money now? Where does it go?

I may not be 'dependant' on her but that doesn't mean that the money wouldn't be of help, after all I've paid for a funeral, I've just got the shock of how much a headstone costs, I'm 38 and throwing money down the drain renting, while trying to save for a deposit for a mortgage, who are these "Trustees" to decide what should happen to something my mum worked hard for!!

If anyone had any advice on if there is anything I can do, it would be much appreciated. And answers....any answers.

Thank you

Loanranger

First of all, sorry to hear of your bereavement.
Pensions are not savings schemes. Your mother would have known the ins and outs when she began paying in to it. The trustees are people who are entrusted by the members of the scheme, your mother etc, to ensure the pension scheme is properly administered and legally . It is correct that independent adult offspring are not beneficiaries.

Hope this helps

GunJack

Plus, it would have been a Defined Benefit pension, so no "pot" of money that is a Defined Contribution scheme.

xylophone

So by my calculations, having a yearly pension of 2k-ish for 5 years, there should still be money in her pension pot to be payed out?

There is no "pot" in a defined benefit pension.

Had your mother died before scheme pension age (60) with her pension undrawn, there may have been some form of death benefit payable to a nominated beneficiary.

Had she died within five years of drawing her pension there may have been (depending on scheme rules) some sort of residual payment due to her estate.

Other than that, in your mother's situation (having reached scheme pension age and drawn the pension, no widower, no child dependants) the pension dies with her.

AnotherJoe

kelsawild1 wrote: »

Hi

I'm after some advice and hopefully someone who can explain this to me, as I feel like I'm going round in circles and nothing is making sense.

My mum passed away in November, I'm currently having to go through and sort all her finances etc and I'm getting really confused by her pension scheme.

She had a pension with Barclays, who she worked for, for 11 years. In 2013 (her normal retirement date) she took a lump sum of £6000, leaving her lifetime allowance at £47,507. This made her yearly pension allowance to be £2075.
So by my calculations, having a yearly pension of 2k-ish for 5 years, there should still be money in her pension pot to be payed out?

Mum didn't leave a will and I am her only next of kin (wasn't married, no other children). With her pension she did complete an expression of wish form, for which she put me down to receive a lump sum payable on death. This form had my correct address but had my maiden name on it.

I've contacted Barclays today to see if there is any monies owing to me, to be told there isn't. They say that because I am not a 'dependant' child I'm not entitled to it and that 'The Trustees' do not pay out to next of kins, only spouses and dependants.

This just feels so wrong to me. She earned her pension through working, she should be able to say what happens to what is left on her death. AND what happens to that money now? Where does it go?

I may not be 'dependant' on her but that doesn't mean that the money wouldn't be of help, after all I've paid for a funeral, I've just got the shock of how much a headstone costs, I'm 38 and throwing money down the drain renting, while trying to save for a deposit for a mortgage, who are these "Trustees" to decide what should happen to something my mum worked hard for!!

If anyone had any advice on if there is anything I can do, it would be much appreciated. And answers....any answers.

Thank you

My commiserations on your loss.
To answer your question, tne trustees are there to ensure the scheme rules are followed.
It's most likely that in the expression of wish form either some money would have gone to you had she died very soon after starting the pension, or if you were a minor (and she didn't understand this restriction) so he wish was invalid.
As to what happens to the money, it's not that sort of pension. Your mums pension isn't a lump sum thatnyuneithdarw money from. Any sum shown will either be nominal or what she would get if she transferred it elsewhere. It's swings amd roundabouts with this sort of pension, no consolation to you but the money nominally attributed to her would be used to support pensioners who far outlived the average.
If your mum wanted to switch to that sort of pension where the lump,sum is passed on she could have done that but then would have got a smaller pension most likely.
Again my commiserations and I'm sorry you've had your hopes raised.

xylophone

With regard to funeral expenses, did your mother leave no money at all in her estate?

If she did, then the funeral expenses should have been met from this.

AnotherJoe

Loanranger wrote: »

First of all, sorry to hear of your bereavement.
Pensions are not savings schemes. Your mother would have known the ins and outs when she began paying in to it. The trustees are people who are entrusted by the members of the scheme, your mother etc, to ensure the pension scheme is properly administered and legally . It is correct that independent adult offspring are not beneficiaries.

Hope this helps

To be fair to the OP, some are. Most newer ones are. Just not this one.

Flugelhorn

Some DB schemes pay up until child is 23 and continue if the child was disabled and dependant on the parent at the time. Also as Xylophone says, there are some that will pay out the balance of 5 years if you have recently retired.

Sadly there isn't really a pot of money - the DB pension is more generous (for the amounts put in) in many ways but there is no pot in these circumstances.

Brynsam

Just to confirm all the above correct answers...the Expression of Wish form would have related only to the 'guarantee' period of her pension. If she had died within 5 years (i.e. 60 monthly instalments) of her pension being paid, then a lump sump equal to any 'unpaid' monthly instalments would have been payable, and the Trustees would exercise their discretion as to whom this lump sum would be paid. The discretionary bit is to ensure the lump sum payment is not taxable.

The Trustees have no such discretion when it comes to ongoing pensions for dependants. The rules of the scheme (which they must follow) will stipulate who can receive this - and the normal maximum age for a 'child's' pension is 18, or 23 if in full-time education or training.

The Lifetime Allowance figure you quote is a red herring - it has no bearing on the benefits which might or might not be paid to survivors in this case. That is governed purely by the rules of the scheme.

I'm sorry you are both bereaved and upset by this, but the Trustees have done absolutely nothing wrong, so please don't feel you have been ill-treated by them - that will only fuel further distress.

kelsawild1

Thank you everyone for you help and replies.
I knew I wouldn't stand a chance against 'The Man' but I needed it verified for me.
It just makes me so angry, she obviously never knew this would be the case, as she always told me after her death her pension would help to pay for everything, which was obviously wrong.
There was no estate, she was in a care home, who I have chasing me for unpaid fee's, as her financial affairs had been in a state for sometime (I was actually awaiting the power of attorney forms so I could start sorting everything out...of course these arrived the day she died!) I would have liked to of been able to pay the care home but I don't have the resources myself too, so this would have come in handy.
Thank you again for all the replys

dunstonh

This just feels so wrong to me. She earned her pension through working, she should be able to say what happens to what is left on her death. AND what happens to that money now? Where does it go?

To be fair, she probably paid little or nothing into it. The Barclays DB pension was non-contributary for a long time. As mentioned, it is not a pot of money (most pensions are but this type is not).

There was no estate, she was in a care home, who I have chasing me for unpaid fee's, as her financial affairs had been in a state for sometime (I was actually awaiting the power of attorney forms so I could start sorting everything out...of course these arrived the day she died!) I would have liked to of been able to pay the care home but I don't have the resources myself too, so this would have come in handy.

There is always an estate. However, the estate may not be solvent. So, if money is owed, it is owed by the estate. If the estate has no assets to liquidate to pay the debts then the car home doesnt get the money and they will have to write it off.

Did she not have a bank account or anything on deposit at all?