I was pulled out of the paying queue by train inspectors to fine me for not paying! -help please

Milliesmum12

Hi - can anybody help please?
I was unable to pay for my train ticket at the kiosk at my local train station as there was nobody there at the time - there was no conductor on the train either .
At the other end there is a section specifically for people to pay after they get off the train before they enter the barriers. I was in the queue given my first opportunity to pay for my ticket. Unfortunately I was unaware of the ‘promise to pay’ ticket I should have picked up from the ticket machine at the first station having no idea this existed.
Myself and other passengers waiting in the queue to pay were pulled out and fined £20 for not having a valid ticket -I explained the situation but the answer was that I should have taken a photo of the empty kiosk to prove nobody was there!
I have appealed but this has been rejected on the grounds I should have produced a ‘promise to pay ‘ ticket . The ticket machine at my local station is new and at the time there were no signs visible indicating this needed to be done.
Can anybody offer any advise? I just feel this is very wrong -I was obviously not fare dodging and my only crime was not pulling a ‘promise to pay ‘ticket out of the machine in the first instance.

daveyjp

If the station has a machine you must purchase before boarding, or take a promise to pay.

If you want to take this further try railforums.co.uk for advice.

jbuchanangb

As there was a ticket machine at the station at which you boarded the train, you should have bought a ticket. Now you should pay the charge. That ticket machine was your first opportunity to buy a ticket, and the rules require you to buy at the first opportunity.

The_Hawk

If the ticket kiosk was not staffed, and if the 'Penalty Fare' signage was not appropriately displayed, then you most definitely have grounds for the penalty fare to be cancelled.

As daveyjp has suggested, the place to go for the correct advice is the 'Disputes & Prosecutions' section at https://www.railforums.co.uk

You will need to let them know where your journey was from and to. I am aware of cases where penalty fares have been cancelled, due to insufficient signage. Also, there are serious question marks regarding Northern's 'promise to pay' tickets and their legitimacy with regards to penalty fares; again, you should be able to get the correct advice on that forum.

Kite2010

Just be thankful it was only a £20 penalty fare rather than a £80+ "penalty fake" where the RPI would take down your details and you would receive a letter saying "pay us £80 plus the fare owed and the matter will go away, don't pay us and we will see you in court".

lewis4453

For £20, personally I would just pay. Ultimately you are in the wrong for not using the machine or checking the terms of carraige; you can complain that there may not be enough notices but if it's in the terms and/or on their website, then you're probably out of luck.

LadyDee

I have never heard of a promise to pay ticket, being a very infrequent rail traveller. I would certainly be appealing this on the grounds of (at the very least) lack of or poor signage.

Also, just because "it's on the website" - so what! Does every journey you make require that you check out their website before taking the journey? That is nonsense. Take a photograph of the ticket machine? Also nonsense - since when has it been a requirement that everybody making a rail journey carry a camera/phone with a camera.

samsmoot

I advise that you pay the £20 penalty fare. I think they may require more of a penalty the longer you leave it, and they always have the option to prosecute instead, as far as I know.


If it were me I would challenge it all the way, probably, but I'm a stroppy bleeder who will happily have a fight with any authority that asks.

DCFC79

samsmoot wrote: »

I advise that you pay the £20 penalty fare. I think they may require more of a penalty the longer you leave it, and they always have the option to prosecute instead, as far as I know.


If it were me I would challenge it all the way, probably, but I'm a stroppy bleeder who will happily have a fight with any authority that asks.

OP hasn't been back on since end of last month.
A 1 post wonder.

Owain_Moneysaver

samsmoot wrote: »

I advise that you pay the £20 penalty fare. I think they may require more of a penalty the longer you leave it, and they always have the option to prosecute instead, as far as I know.

They can try prosecuting, but if the OP was in the queue to pay for a ticket it would be impossible to prove intent to evade paying a fare.

stragglebod

Owain_Moneysaver wrote: »

They can try prosecuting, but if the OP was in the queue to pay for a ticket it would be impossible to prove intent to evade paying a fare.

They don't need to. They only have to prove that the OP got on a train without a ticket.