Contract

farmerboy

getmore4less wrote: »

If you break this down to have you ever worked contract 2 where you would not be covered by contract 1 as well.

22 days per month then overtime is the same we can ignore that clause.

The more than 2 weekends paid overtime

have you ever worked more than 2 weekends and less than 22 days and got overtime for the extra weekend(s).

if not then you have been working to to the terms of both contracts.


Personally no, but some of the lads on that contract have done less than the 22 days and still got paid for the overtime on the 3rd and 4th weekends


contract 2, 22 days per month
have you ever worked less than 22 days in a month if you have then that is contract 1, at least 22 and that is covered by both contracts.


Again no, always ended up over the 22 shifts


so many days over a rolling 13 week period


13 weeks covers 3 months depending on "so many days" it may be possible to still comply with 22 per month but not meet the 13 week requirement in a rolling period. The only stipulation regarding the 22 days on that contract relates to when overtime will be paid in each calendar month.
(I could work out if that is ever possible)

Has that ever happened.
what is the "so many days" 68 days averaged out over the 13 weeks


You are going to have to show that you have been paid under contract 2 where contract one could not have been used.
Thanks, so basically I can't because if I worked 24 days in total its just and admin issue showing where the overtime is allocated i.e the last 2 shifts on one contract or the last 2 weekends on another

getmore4less wrote: »

what's the overtime rate. A day rate pay which varies depending on your pay grade

if they can't hit the 22days a month/"so many days" what will they do about pay. The company pays your basic salary regardless, one lad last month booked 10 days but still got paid as if he worked 22.

They could have you use up holiday(presume they do count towards the targets).Yes holidays count towards the basic, they have in the past asked for those to be used

Answers in red above


Suppose the main gripe is that you can have 3 lads all of the same experience and pay grade on 3 different contracts doing the same job. Even though they have the 2 contracts stated above there are anomalies between shift lengths for individual people.

getmore4less

Some more questions.

The company pays your basic salary regardless, one lad last month booked 10 days but still got paid as if he worked 22.

That is good they are being decent so far with that(*see later)

Personally no, but some of the lads on that contract have done less than the 22 days and still got paid for the overtime on the 3rd and 4th weekends

Are you saying that they got paid for 22 days as per contract AND got extra pay for the extra weekend days?

eg if they did 6 days over 3 weekends they get 24days(22 contract and 2 for the extra weekend?

A day rate pay which varies depending on your pay grade

Is this a normal days pay or enhanced in any way?


* this is something they could address in a number of ways to reduce costs when there is not enough work to go round, more use of holiday, temp lay off, change in contractual hours.

Putting the rolling 13 week 68 days to one side
(I have gut feel this may not change anything but could be wrong)

From your answers most of the time most people are doing OK and there may be an anomaly that there is potential for anyone working 3 weekends to get paid extra even if they don't hit the min days.

There is that old saying pick you battles

On balance I think this is one to be careful with as the company has a lot more options to compensate for any extra pay they have to dish out for the odd weekend overtime on top of a worker that gets there normal 22 topped up because they are short(if that is what happens).

farmerboy

getmore4less wrote: »

Some more questions.

The company pays your basic salary regardless, one lad last month booked 10 days but still got paid as if he worked 22.

That is good they are being decent so far with that(*see later)


Fully agree there

Personally no, but some of the lads on that contract have done less than the 22 days and still got paid for the overtime on the 3rd and 4th weekends

Are you saying that they got paid for 22 days as per contract AND got extra pay for the extra weekend days? Yes because they worked more than there contracted 2 weekends

eg if they did 6 days over 3 weekends they get 24days(22 contract and 2 for the extra weekend?

A day rate pay which varies depending on your pay grade

Is this a normal days pay or enhanced in any way?

Its an enhanced rate, linked to your grade



* this is something they could address in a number of ways to reduce costs when there is not enough work to go round, more use of holiday, temp lay off, change in contractual hours.

Putting the rolling 13 week 68 days to one side
(I have gut feel this may not change anything but could be wrong)

From your answers most of the time most people are doing OK and there may be an anomaly that there is potential for anyone working 3 weekends to get paid extra even if they don't hit the min days.

There is that old saying pick you battles

On balance I think this is one to be careful with as the company has a lot more options to compensate for any extra pay they have to dish out for the odd weekend overtime on top of a worker that gets there normal 22 topped up because they are short(if that is what happens).

We do do very good to be fair, and its not a battle I'm looking to start really, it all depends what happens over the next few months as I could be working along side a colleague who is on the same pay grade but getting paid around £1000/month more just because of how his contract days differ to mine for the same job.


As I said earlier, they only used our contract for around 10 employees then reverted to the original one so the majority of the firm is on a 2 weekend contract.


I am currently having informal discussions with my line manager over it as there are other parts to my contract that are out of line with the other one, added to the fact that my role in the company has dramatically changed since then so it bares no resemblance to the work I actually do now.

getmore4less

How easy is it for them to stop using the employees that have the weekend overtime and just use others for those days.

farmerboy

Not very as the weekend are the busiest times

getmore4less

I think discussions with the employer and employees are needed to look for a solution.

If they can't fill the contractual days and have to pay extra days as well they may have to look for options to cut costs.

Are there any layoff clauses in the contracts?

jonnygee2

The reason that I know that I've been paid on the other contract is the time sheets and the way they have been signed off, along with the way they allocate bank holiday weekend pay (different in both contracts).

Right okay, this makes a bit more sense but also makes a big difference, as they haven't actually been paying you differently, they've just been writing up your time sheets differently.

By the way, there being 'two contracts' isn't actually relevant. It doesn't matter (as far as I understand) what contract any of your colleagues have or what those contracts say. There're only two relevant things:

1. Your contract
2. Any implied changes to that contract, implied by the way the way you or the company has acted.

So the allocation of bank holiday weekend pay would be a totally separate issue too.

I don't know whether signed time-sheets is enough to imply a contract, it could be, but it sounds likely to be contested. It would be a lot clearer if you had regularly actually been paid more, but as this hasn't happened even once, it'd be complex. Probably one for the lawyers.

We do do very good to be fair, and its not a battle I'm looking to start really, it all depends what happens over the next few months as I could be working along side a colleague who is on the same pay grade but getting paid around £1000/month more just because of how his contract days differ to mine for the same job.

I think it's wise not to start this battle. Even if you manage to prove you are on the more expensive contract, your employer would have multiple options for getting themselves out of this - most of which would mean you ended up without a job!

Masomnia

It looks like you've had some pretty comprehensive answers but the point JG raised I can't see anything wrong with having two groups with different contracts, there could be all sorts of reasons as to why that is. They might have transferred from a previous business under TUPE, they might just be on old terms that the company has phased out, they might just want different people on different contracts to help them plan workloads.

If you want to be on the other contract then you can ask nicely. I wouldn't want to work alongside someone doing the same job who was being paid substantially more either, unless I could see a good reason as to why they were being paid more. If they won't increase your pay/put you on the other contract it may be time to look for another role.