State Pension Inequality?

DT2001

Wow, a thought provoking 2 pages.

Fairness is obviously subjective (I should know with 4 children ).

I have been the main child carer and been fortunate to be able to work p/t from home on a self employed basis. I’ve paid a little NI every year but hadn’t really given it too much thought that my OH and I will get the same SP despite contributing different financial amounts. I’ll have ‘worked’ 48 years by the time I collect my SP although only need to complete 42 for full SP as contracted out for early years.

I think earning NI whilst bringing up children is correct so to answer the original post I do not think that is an equality more a recognition of different types of contribution.

lisyloo

I dont see what your choice and my choice has to do with fairness.

For older people starting work at 14 or 15 they weren't necessarily choices especially if you go back as far as the 40s.
My FIL did national service. Was that a choice? No it wasn't.
Was conscription fair on individuals.
I don't even know if he got NI for that (I guess he probably did).

Most people starting work that early in the 40s, 50s and 60s probably didn't have much of choice.
My mum was 18 in 1963 and didn't get the choice to go to uni (like her brothers) as she was female. Was that fair? I don't think it was.

I count my self lucky (my glass isn't big enough) and I think those of us who have had choices, health and haven't faced compulsorary service should count ourselves lucky.
It would make everyone's like better including our own if a little more gratitude was practiced. Grateful people are happier.

Pollycat

lisyloo wrote: »

For older people starting work at 14 or 15 they weren't necessarily choices especially if you go back as far as the 40s.
My FIL did national service. Was that a choice? No it wasn't.
Was conscription fair on individuals.
I don't even know if he got NI for that (I guess he probably did).

Most people starting work that early in the 40s, 50s and 60s probably didn't have much of choice.
My mum was 18 in 1963 and didn't get the choice to go to uni (like her brothers) as she was female. Was that fair? I don't think it was.

I count my self lucky (my glass isn't big enough) and I think those of us who have had choices, health and haven't faced compulsorary service should count ourselves lucky.
It would make everyone's like better including our own if a little more gratitude was practiced. Grateful people are happier

And less obsession with what other people are getting, a point I made earlier in the thread:

Pollycat wrote: »

Personally, I don't worry myself about what other people get or will get.
My life is my life, theirs is theirs.
I don't share details of my finances with other people, I don't ask them to share theirs with me.

And life really is too short to get all het up about so-called 'injustices'.
It can just end up making you bitter if you're on the wrong end or smug if you're on the good end.
Neither are attractive traits.

shropshirelady

colsten wrote: »

You are a great example of a glass-half-full person. You only remember things that used to be worse in the past, not those that worked in your favour. For example, there was free education for your (and my) generation. With the high mortgage interest rates came high savings interest rates, and tremendous rises in house prices. The increase in house prices are the main contributor to us being the wealthiest cohort that ever lived. Many of the younger people, who don't see a state pension until they are 67 or 68, can only dream of having a mortgage, and there's no such thing as MIRAS for them, either. If you were contracted in for 30 years, you must have accumulated quite a bit of SERPS/S2P. You had the opportunity to defer your state pension at a whopping 10.4% interest, and to get a lump sum payment when commencing your deferred state pension. In the 80s and 90s, it took about 4 workers to pay the state pension of one pensioner. Now it's down to almost 2, because we have fewer people of working age and an explosion of people of state pension age. And you still qualified for your state pension at 60, 5 years before a man your age, and up to 8 years before many of those who are paying your state pension,

These are just examples off the top of my head of the advantages we had, and which people younger than us don't have. It's not all better for them. It is important to look at all the pros and cons to arrive at a balanced view.

I actually am a glass half full person. If not I wouldn't have gone from a rented house in the slums of my childhood, to buying my own house, and eventually running my own small business after redundancy. I only brought up those points because a poster referred to a low tax era. You obviously know that it wasn't. I still had to pay 44 years of NIC, although I only needed 39 years for full state pension. You're right about it being unfair that men had to wait 5 years longer for retirement, and I always thought that. My Father didn't get any retirement as he passed away just as he was retiring. Buying my own house though meant I had no savings to make extra money in the high interest years. There is free education now until university, so that's no different. As i said, working until I was 65 didn't cause me any problems. I get about £10 per week in additional pension, if you call that a lot.

xylophone

I do get some additional state pension and some company pension, though one company pension is fixed for life, and was contracted out for some of that, but was contracted in for 30 odd years. I've had my state pension since I was 60, though I worked until I was a few months after 65.

I get about £10 per week in additional pension, if you call that a lot.

Does your State Pension Benefit Statement ( you will likely just have received one) show a high "contracted out deduction"?

p00hsticks

shropshirelady wrote: »

Yes, just received. Contracted out deduction is £47.25

So when the new State Pension was introduced in 2016. under the new rules you would have got only £108.40 (£155.65 - £47.25) and your 'starting amount' under the transitional rules would therefore be what you currently get under the old rules, as that is more..

atush

Pollycat wrote: »

And less obsession with what other people are getting, a point I made earlier in the thread:

I dont ever get this.

I dont care a bean what other people get, just what I get.

bowlhead99

shropshirelady wrote: »

Yes, just received. Contracted out deduction is £47.25

Hmm.

'I paid national insurance for 45 years but get less than £130pw at the moment and someone else with fewer years might get £166 next year. This doesn't seem fair...'

"Really? You don't you get any additional state pension"

'well yeah I get additional state pension but I'm trying to emphasise how unfair it is by making a headline comment with a big gap between the numbers...'

"And did you really pay full contributions for all those 45 years or is there some sensible reason why you might not get as much as some other people"

'well yeah I paid less than the full amount of national insurance for some of that period and diverted the money into my own private pension. The government assessed conservatively that my private pension funding which I stashed on the side for just me - instead of contributing to the national insurance fund - is worth close to fifty quid a week in today's money. But I'm trying to emphasise how unfair it is by making a headline comment with a big gap between the numbers... Now I am starting to remember why I don't come on here often, with my throwaway comments about unfairness which don't stand scrutiny.'

"By the way, did you work all the way until age 66+ like people now need to?"

'well no. I'm trying to emphasise how unfair it is by making a headline comment with a big gap between the numbers...'

fred246

After starting this thread I was thinking about it again. I had loads of money when we had children and I would have liked time off. So could I have got my state pension contributions paid too? No they only go to one parent. How do they decide which parent? When our children were born the midwife gave the paperwork straight to my wife and she posted it off. It's the only paperwork I can think of that my wife did without my involvement. When I look on the internet there are loads of dads trying to get child benefit paid to them without any luck. Child benefit basically always given to mother. So there are loads of women getting free state pensions but very few men. Seems a bit unequal?

xylophone

Child benefit basically always given to mother.

It has been the case that CB is more often paid to the mother, certainly if we are thinking say 30+ years back.

Only one person can receive it but there is a choice. Take the example of a mother who earns more than the father - they might well decide that the father will be a stay at home parent - he should claim the CB to protect his state pension entitlement.

https://www.gov.uk/child-benefit/eligibility