Low income and Self Assessment

Flyonthewall

00ec25 wrote: »

[STRIKE][/STRIKE]corrected for you

if you state your turnover is below £1,000 then by default you must be a) self employed since you have a turnover you are notifying and b) your turnover is below the level at which you will have any taxable profits therefore, as per the guidance, HMRC do not want to waste their time going through a tax return with nothing taxable.

the fact you have tailored your return to include the self employed question records your ongoing self employed activity.
The main down side is, because it no longer brings you to the self employed pages themselves, you lose the ability to voluntarily pay Class 2 NI for those on low profits - but then again as you are PAYE that it utterly irrelevant for you anyway.

No, it actually states "were not self-employed" under the Check Your Return page. It doesn't say self employed, but under the allowance. It doesn't actually mention the allowance at all even though the £1000 question is obviously about that. So while what you say is true about the turnover, it's not what they state and that's why I'm now confused whether or not I am actually classed as self employed as far as they are concerned and whether it'll mean re-registering in the future.

If it did say self employed, but under the allowance that would be correct, I'd agree with it and never have started this thread lol.

Dazed_and_confused

I don't understand why you are so reluctant to have a go at completing the self employment pages.

Until you have a go you don't know what options you will get.

I have gone to the trouble of looking at the notes for the paper version of the return and think it is at the very least worthwhile you trying this.

Flyonthewall

Dazed_and_confused wrote: »

I don't understand why you are so reluctant to have a go at completing the self employment pages.

Until you have a go you don't know what options you will get.

I have gone to the trouble of looking at the notes for the paper version of the return and think it is at the very least worthwhile you trying this.

I'm not reluctant. How can I start something that isn't there?

I'm grateful you've taken the time to reply and look up notes, but there is literally nothing to tick to say I'm self employed. It does not exist.

If it did (like last year) I would be ticking it! 100%, without a doubt, it would be ticked and I'd have already filled it in. But it's not there

Flyonthewall

00ec25 wrote: »

then I have no idea what you are filling because the page looks like this (my bolding):

If you are self employed or in a partnership, you must register to pay Class 2 National Insurance.

Was your turnover £1,000 or more in total from all self-employments? Please check help before selecting
Yes No

if you answer No that is the end of it, you have notified you are self employed and, as per the link I gave you earlier, you are required to retain your own records of your income as evidence of your self employment

if you answer yes, then you get the supplemental questions

How many self-employed businesses did you have?
Please provide us with the name of your business(es):
Business 1 name:

I answered no because my turnover wasn't over £1000. That then leads to it stating not self employed despite being self employed just under the allowance. I don't know if it's just worded badly or whether they'll now class me as no longer self employed.

I do have all records of my income should I need it.

00ec25

well then read all the notes because I just have and the answer is there...


Self-employed turnover
Watch a short YouTube video on your self-employed tax return

If you carried on a trade or vocation as a self-employed person (but not in a partnership) or you were a subcontractor working in the building industry and your turnover was more than £1,000 in the year ended 5 April 2018, choose ‘Yes’ from the drop down menu even if you made a loss. If your Self-employment and miscellaneous turnover was up to £1,000 this is exempt from tax and you don’t need to report this on a tax return, if this applies to you choose ‘No’ from the drop down menu.

If you are self-employed and your turnover was £1,000 or less you may choose to complete the ‘self-employment’ section if:

• your allowable expenses are higher than your turnover and you want to claim relief for the loss or carry forward a loss to be used against future profits
• you want to voluntarily pay Class 2 National Insurance contributions to build entitlement to contributory benefits like State Pension
• you’re a subcontractor and want to claim back tax deducted under the Construction Industry Scheme (CIS)
• you expect your turnover to exceed £1,000 in the next tax year
• you want to preserve your record of self employment, for example to support an application for Maternity Allowance
• you would like to claim Tax Free Childcare based on your self-employment income

Dazed_and_confused

I'm not reluctant. How can I start something that isn't there?

I'm grateful you've taken the time to reply and look up notes, but there is literally nothing to tick to say I'm self employed. It does not exist.

What, you cannot tailor your return to include the self employment pages?

HMRC have serious problems if people cannot declare their self employment income

Flyonthewall

00ec25 wrote: »

well then read all the notes because I just have and the answer is there...


If you are self-employed and your turnover was £1,000 or less you may choose to complete the ‘self-employment’ section if:

• you want to preserve your record of self employment, for example to support an application for Maternity Allowance

I did read the notes and had someone with me at the time also reading them. I think we both saw the bit about maternity allowance, thought that doesn't apply to me, and missed the bit about preserving it what with it being at the end of the list, nothing else applying and the maternity bit being what stood out.

Even knowing that was there, I opened up the notes myself and still thought for a moment it wasn't there...maybe it's the font or how it opens up on my computer, I dunno, but it's surprisingly easy to miss!

I googled about it before creating this thread and sites just says not to register and do a return for under £1000 which is no use when already registered and didn't answer the question at all.

Thanks for making the notes clear and taking the time to reply.

Dunno who thought it was a good idea to have you answer yes to a question when the answer is no though, why not add a third option and make it really clear??? Or they could have kept the tick box that simply asks about self employment. It seems like such a straight forward question and it's not really so I bet there are a lot of people who have just clicked no when actually they should really have clicked yes.

Flyonthewall

Dazed_and_confused wrote: »

What, you cannot tailor your return to include the self employment pages?

HMRC have serious problems if people cannot declare their self employment income

Not how you could. Before it was a tick box. Self employed? Yes. Questions. Simple and obvious.

Now it seems you can, but you have to tick yes to a question where your answer is no (unless you have earnt over £1000 in which case you answer yes truthfully and get the questions as you expect.)

Turns out it is in the notes, but I and the person reading them with me completely missed it. I imagine that many others have got it wrong because, well, who thinks to answer yes to a question where their answer is no...

Heedtheadvice

Whatever the notes say I agree with Flyonthewall about the presentation of the return online.


The question directs one to give a correct answer but then has other imp!ications.


Low income for SE does not stack up with the later report statement 'not self employed'


The same incorrect logic applies to the under £1000 income for property question which results in a report 'no property'.


I have other issues about the online pfesentation (in a thread that D&C helped with) so I believe HMRC have need to review the online presentation. It is not as it stands up to scratch.

Flyonthewall

Heedtheadvice wrote: »

Whatever the notes say I agree with Flyonthewall about the presentation of the return online.


The question directs one to give a correct answer but then has other imp!ications.


Low income for SE does not stack up with the later report statement 'not self employed'


The same incorrect logic applies to the under £1000 income for property question which results in a report 'no property'.


I have other issues about the online pfesentation (in a thread that D&C helped with) so I believe HMRC have need to review the online presentation. It is not as it stands up to scratch.

Exactly. I did read the notes and would usually notice something like that, but many wouldn't read the notes. Even with a pop up and big bold text instructing them to read the notes, many wouldn't read the notes because they'd assume they know the answer to such a simple question.

I've had issues with their other forms before, having to put one answer and see where it leads because I'm not sure which answer they're expecting. The way they word the question means both yes and no could be correct depending on how you read it.

Not the best example because the ones I've had have been more ambiguous, but 'are you no longer employed?' Yes or No. Yes, I'm no longer employed. No, I'm no longer employed. Then after that you find out that they've lumped employed and self employed together so the answer you thought you were giving wasn't even the answer you should be giving anyway.

Also there's always a question with must answer follow up questions despite the fact you've answered no and none of the others are relevant.

For example, do you have a partner? No.
Does you partner earn over £1000? Yes or No.
Does your partner live with you? Yes or No.
You have to answer no because, duh, they don't exist. Makes you feel like you've lied about the partner though as you're then answering questions as if you have one.

If I were writing out/creating the forms I'd be making a lot of changes lol.