Universal credit and partner's overseas income

WoollyHat

I am British living in the UK with our two children; my partner has recently gone back to their native EU country to work. They have registered there and pay all taxes/insurances/contributions/etc.. at their appropriate national rate.
We remain married and have a joint mortgage on a house in the UK.
My query: should my partner's overseas income be taken into account if making a Universal Credit claim?

(For the record, our combined income has of course gone up but now we run two households, childcare has gone from zero to hundreds, and to maintain 'a family' there are significant travel costs; we are not starving, this is not a universal credit horror-story; we are now both employed which is great but have made personal sacrifices and our 'real' take-home pay is now actually less.)

Appreciate advice/thoughts. Thanks.

kingfisherblue

I've not claimed UC, but other benefits ask for details of partner's income, so I would imagine that UC will be the same. If it is asked, then you hae to declare it. There are families living in this country, but in two different places (often because one has to live away part of the time for work), maintaining two households, and whilst your partner is working in a different country, it's no different than many others who do the same within this country. I don't think that maintaining two households is likely to be considered.

pmlindyloo

This link giving the definition of a couple under Universal Credit is interesting.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-and-couples-an-introduction/universal-credit-further-information-for-couples

Under this definition then I think the OP would have to make a single claim.

Not a situation that I have come across before. Might be one that has to go to a Decision Maker.

Perhaps CAB could advise?

Otherwise, it would be a case of applying and seeing what they say.

huckster

Agree, make a claim is sole name and one of the questions, is do you have a partner, which you say yes and then answer question that they live elsewhere.

On your sole claim, if you receive any money from your partner, which goes directly towards your living costs, then you would have to declare this as 'other income'. There is a question on the new claim disclosure asking about this. You would then have to supply bank statements to the job centre which confirms this other income. When UC work out what payment you are due each month, this other income would be taken into account.

You have to disclose money from your partner as other income towards your living costs. If you don't and it is found out later, you are likely to be questionned about this and end up owing a debt.

The other income will only be related to general living costs. As you would not be claiming housing because you own a house with a mortgage, then it is reasonable not to include anything your partner contributes towards the mortgage. But any money on top of that, to pay to help you and family to live at the UK house would be other income.

calcotti

huckster wrote: »

As you would not be claiming housing because you own a house with a mortgage, then it is reasonable not to include anything your partner contributes towards the mortgage.

Even better if any help with mortgage is paid direct to the mortgage lender to avoid having to decide how much of any money received is for living costs and how much for mortgage.

Icequeen99

huckster wrote: »

Agree, make a claim is sole name and one of the questions, is do you have a partner, which you say yes and then answer question that they live elsewhere.

On your sole claim, if you receive any money from your partner, which goes directly towards your living costs, then you would have to declare this as 'other income'. There is a question on the new claim disclosure asking about this. You would then have to supply bank statements to the job centre which confirms this other income. When UC work out what payment you are due each month, this other income would be taken into account.

You have to disclose money from your partner as other income towards your living costs. If you don't and it is found out later, you are likely to be questionned about this and end up owing a debt.

The other income will only be related to general living costs. As you would not be claiming housing because you own a house with a mortgage, then it is reasonable not to include anything your partner contributes towards the mortgage. But any money on top of that, to pay to help you and family to live at the UK house would be other income.

Do you have a link to DWP guidance or legislation that this income is 'other income'? (i assume unearned income with 100% taper)?

I need to check the actual question, but i think it asks if you have a partner who lives with you? If the OP is single under the definition of a couple, then she claims as a single person surely.

IQ

TELLIT01

Interesting question and I'll be fascinated to know what the criteria are for making a single or couple claim in this type of situation. Many couples will have a partner who spends extended periods working away, so how is "lives with you" defined?

For example, I've known people who have worked abroad on contracts for several months, so at what point would the partner living in the UK be able to make a 'single' claim?
I must stress I'm not judging anybody, I really do think it's an interesting area.

WoollyHat

Thanks everyone for responses, appreciated.
A little more info that I didn't include for brevity of first question scenario.
So, I've been confused: on knowing of my partner's decision to work back in their native EU country (and effectively live their for 90% of the time) and knowing they would be contributing to their own country's taxation/etc.. I immediately informed HMRC (we had an ongoing joint tax credit claim).
The tax credit department said I would need to make a new single claim now under the UC system.
I did so back in July, and at the initial interview I was told they didn't think my partner's overseas income would effect a single-person UK-based claim (I have been open about our situation from the beginning). Nothing happened until I suddenly received a payment into my account in October from UC.
In the meantime I had been told different things by different departments: my local council state my wife's residence is still the UK and hence we cannot claim the 25% council tax discount for single-occupancy; however, the same council also state my partner is not resident and therefore loses the right to vote in local elections. Meanwhile HMRC state that as my partner's earnings are not in the UK they do not effect my right to claim the 10% marriage allowance.
Hence my confusion.
This lead to a nagging feeling and since my first UC payment I have been badgering the UC for clarification of how my partner's income might effect my single UC claim .... this took a few months, all the time through which I kept receiving UC payments .... and you guessed it, on 20 December, UC decide my partner's overseas income is to be taken into account, and Merry Christmas to me, I now must repay nearly 2k (total of payments received August-December as a single-person with two children).
This apparently comes from the decision-maker; so anyone-else in a similar situation: beware.
Happy 2019

pmlindyloo

WoollyHat wrote: »

Thanks everyone for responses, appreciated.
A little more info that I didn't include for brevity of first question scenario.
So, I've been confused: on knowing of my partner's decision to work back in their native EU country (and effectively live their for 90% of the time) and knowing they would be contributing to their own country's taxation/etc.. I immediately informed HMRC (we had an ongoing joint tax credit claim).
The tax credit department said I would need to make a new single claim now under the UC system.
I did so back in July, and at the initial interview I was told they didn't think my partner's overseas income would effect a single-person UK-based claim (I have been open about our situation from the beginning). Nothing happened until I suddenly received a payment into my account in October from UC.
In the meantime I had been told different things by different departments: my local council state my wife's residence is still the UK and hence we cannot claim the 25% council tax discount for single-occupancy; however, the same council also state my partner is not resident and therefore loses the right to vote in local elections. Meanwhile HMRC state that as my partner's earnings are not in the UK they do not effect my right to claim the 10% marriage allowance.
Hence my confusion.
This lead to a nagging feeling and since my first UC payment I have been badgering the UC for clarification of how my partner's income might effect my single UC claim .... this took a few months, all the time through which I kept receiving UC payments .... and you guessed it, on 20 December, UC decide my partner's overseas income is to be taken into account, and Merry Christmas to me, I now must repay nearly 2k (total of payments received August-December as a single-person with two children).
This apparently comes from the decision-maker; so anyone-else in a similar situation: beware.
Happy 2019

Interesting.

Did the Decision Maker give reasons why they made this decision?

I am wondering if this could be appealed.

Have been reading this link:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/661551/adme4.pdf

Although it is about people living together as man and wife the inference is that married people and people living as man and wife should be treated the same. Therefore the information provided would apply to both married and not married couples.

If you continue to scroll down you will find some information about temporary absence.

Perhaps you can provide some more information about what the set up is.

How long is the absence?
Does your partner return home or do you visit as a family? How often?
Does your partner send money home?

In some respects I can see why they are still considering you as a couple as you have a joint mortgage, responsibility for the children etc etc.

Have you a CAB nearby which has a benefits specialist? They may be able to help.

After reading the link you may have a better idea of why this decision has been made. If you still believe that you should not be treated as a couple then if the decision maker has not clearly set out the reasons for the decision then you could start an appeal asking for the legislation on which the decision has been made which led to you continuing to be treated as a couple.

calcotti

The guidance in the link provided by pmlindyloo seems clear that they are not a couple

"E4152 Where the claimant is a member of a couple and the other member is temporarily absent from the claimant’s household, they cease to be treated as a couple if that absence is expected to, or exceeds, 6 months1. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]1 UC Regs, reg 3(6) [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Absence of one party expected to, or exceeds, 6 months
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Example 1
[/FONT][/FONT]Huw and Isobel are LTAMC and in receipt of UC. Isobel is involved in a road accident and is admitted to hospital with life-threatening injuries. She needs prolonged treatment and rehabilitation and is expected to be in hospital for about 8 months. The DM treats Huw and Isobel as no longer LTAMC from the date of Isobel’s admission to hospital.
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Example 2
[/FONT][/FONT]Louie and David are LTAMC and in receipt of UC. David obtains work abroad and has a contract of employment for 18 months. The DM treats Louie and David as no longer LTAMC from the date that David goes abroad.
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Example 3 [/FONT][/FONT]
Ed and Melanie are LTAMC and in receipt of UC. Melanie’s mother, Cathy, lives in Spain and Melanie hasn’t seen her for 2 years. Cathy receives an inheritance and tells Melanie that she will buy her a plane ticket, if she would like to pay a visit. Melanie accepts her mother’s offer and leaves the UK for a 4 week period. As the absence is for less than 6 months, Ed and Melanie continue to be treated as a couple whilst Melanie is in Spain."

I would suggest requesting a Mandatory Reconsideration, directing DWP to the Advice to Decision Makers and asking for a full Statement of reasons to explain their decision.

WoollyHat

The response from UC was thus:

"Welfare Reform Act 2012 section 5 & Universal Credit 2013, Regulation 22 (3) (a)

Basically the regulations state that we would take any combined capital and income into consideration. Although he is claiming as s single person and his wife is working abroad we would take the income into consideration as a couple".

I've done a quick search of these and they do state that a couple's income should be assessed jointly; they do not however define 'couple' in relation to one partner living overseas for 90% of the year and paying fully into another country's taxation/social security system.
(Incidentally, the country in question taxes my partner at a higher rate as they deem them to be a single person without kids!)