Gross Misconduct (sleeping)

FLM14

So been suspended from work for Gross Misconduct due to nodding off.

A little background I work nights as a line manager in a factory for the past 3 months or so due to workload decrease i dont have any specific duties apart from looking busy.

Mid November I was feeling unwell so I took some over the counter flu tablets and went to sit in my office. A bit later when I usually go on my break (NO set times) Someone phoned the shift manager to advise I was a sleep in the office. As he walked into the office I got up he said I've just caught you a sleep i denied and he left.

The following shift I was suspended (with pay) due to Gross Misconduct falling asleep in the office.

A investigation meeting was then carried out by H.R and the same shift manager. During the course of the investigation this manager a few times mentioned 'when I caught you a sleep' me and the union rep protested that the investigating officer was not independent and how could he carry out an impartial investigation when he himself is a witness and with such a large organisation it was easy for them to get someone else who was not involved. H.R interrupted saying they had the same conversation before the meeting but it was decided that as he was my manager they decided he would conduct the investigation.

During the suspension I had no contact from H.R so I would phone for updates. On the last call when I spoke to the H.R officer who conducted the investigation meeting I was advised they have a number of witnesses to speak too and then will get all the witnesses statements out to me.


A few questions for H.R experts.

Is accidentally falling asleep always classed as gross misconduct if so how would you justify this for example theft-dishonesty but how is nodding gross misconduct? Taking into consideration I had no direct responsibility for any staff or equipment at the time. Also that I was on my break all be it in the office.

Is it commen or right for the investigation team to take witness statements before speaking to myself.

Is it fair and reasonable for the same shift manager who is a witness to also be the investigating officer (A organisation of 500) so easily assigned someone else.

Is it fair and reasonable for H.R to advise me that the matter would be going to disciplinary hearing even before speaking to ALL the witnesses i.e during a live investigation.

So I've been invited to a disciplinary hearing with the potential outcome to be summary dismissal (which is a certainty due to workloads)

Appreciate comments in advance

[Deleted User]

FLM14 wrote: »

So been suspended from work for Gross Misconduct due to nodding off.

A little background I work nights as a line manager in a factory for the past 3 months or so due to workload decrease i dont have any specific duties apart from looking busy.

Mid November I was feeling unwell so I took some over the counter flu tablets and went to sit in my office. A bit later when I usually go on my break (NO set times) Someone phoned the shift manager to advise I was a sleep in the office. As he walked into the office I got up he said I've just caught you a sleep i denied and he left.

The following shift I was suspended (with pay) due to Gross Misconduct falling asleep in the office.

A investigation meeting was then carried out by H.R and the same shift manager. During the course of the investigation this manager a few times mentioned 'when I caught you a sleep' me and the union rep protested that the investigating officer was not independent and how could he carry out an impartial investigation when he himself is a witness and with such a large organisation it was easy for them to get someone else who was not involved. H.R interrupted saying they had the same conversation before the meeting but it was decided that as he was my manager they decided he would conduct the investigation.

During the suspension I had no contact from H.R so I would phone for updates. On the last call when I spoke to the H.R officer who conducted the investigation meeting I was advised they have a number of witnesses to speak too and then will get all the witnesses statements out to me.


A few questions for H.R experts.

Is accidentally falling asleep always classed as gross misconduct if so how would you justify this for example theft-dishonesty but how is nodding gross misconduct? Taking into consideration I had no direct responsibility for any staff or equipment at the time. Also that I was on my break all be it in the office.

Is it commen or right for the investigation team to take witness statements before speaking to myself.

Is it fair and reasonable for the same shift manager who is a witness to also be the investigating officer (A organisation of 500) so easily assigned someone else.

Is it fair and reasonable for H.R to advise me that the matter would be going to disciplinary hearing even before speaking to ALL the witnesses i.e during a live investigation.

So I've been invited to a disciplinary hearing with the potential outcome to be summary dismissal (which is a certainty due to workloads)

Appreciate comments in advance

Of course sleeping when you are being paid to work is gross misconduct.

They can take witness statements in any order they want.

Probably not fair that a key witness is investigating officer BUT if that's his role and status.

Browntoa

I'm suspecting not a first offence.

Or a fellow workers got fed up with you "taking a nap" on a regular basis

FLM14

Definitely first time with a impeccable work history record.

FLM14

So straight forward then Gross misconduct. Case closed would the other factors not be considered break being taken, no responsibilities, feeling unwell etc.

[Deleted User]

Not really. If you were so sick you needed to sleep you shouldn't have been in.

Browntoa

FLM14 wrote: »

Definitely first time with a impeccable work history record.

Why would a fellow worker report you then. I'd ignore it if I knew you weren't well.

agrinnall

My suspicion is that if there isn't enough work for you they will use this as an excuse to get rid of you without a pay off. Pity you handed it to them on a plate.

poorweelass

I would hold my hands up and admit to have nodded off for a few minutes and show them what medication you used, saying you hadn't realised how drowsy it would make you , that it was a genuine error and won't happen again

nicechap

FLM14 wrote: »

So been suspended from work for Gross Misconduct due to nodding off.

A little background I work nights as a line manager in a factory for the past 3 months or so due to workload decrease i dont have any specific duties apart from looking busy.

Mid November I was feeling unwell so I took some over the counter flu tablets and went to sit in my office. A bit later when I usually go on my break (NO set times) Someone phoned the shift manager to advise I was a sleep in the office. As he walked into the office I got up he said I've just caught you a sleep i denied and he left.

The following shift I was suspended (with pay) due to Gross Misconduct falling asleep in the office.

A investigation meeting was then carried out by H.R and the same shift manager. During the course of the investigation this manager a few times mentioned 'when I caught you a sleep' me ahnd the union rep protested that the investigating officer was not independent and how could he carry out an impartial investigation when he himself is a witness and with such a large organisation it was easy for them to get someone else who was not involved. H.R interrupted saying they had the same conversation before the meeting but it was decided that as he was my manager they decided he would conduct the investigation.

During the suspension I had no contact from H.R so I would phone for updates. On the last call when I spoke to the H.R officer who conducted the investigation meeting I was advised they have a number of witnesses to speak too and then will get all the witnesses statements out to me.


A few questions for H.R experts.

1 Is accidentally falling asleep always classed as gross misconduct if so how would you justify this for example theft-dishonesty but how is nodding gross misconduct? Taking into consideration I had no direct responsibility for any staff or equipment at the time. Also that I was on my break all be it in the office.

2 Is it commen or right for the investigation team to take witness statements before speaking to myself.

3 Is it fair and reasonable for the same shift manager who is a witness to also be the investigating officer (A organisation of 500) so easily assigned someone else.

4 Is it fair and reasonable for H.R to advise me that the matter would be going to disciplinary hearing even before speaking to ALL the witnesses i.e during a live investigation.

So I've been invited to a disciplinary hearing with the potential outcome to be summary dismissal (which is a certainty due to workloads)

Appreciate comments in advance

1 - not always but it certainly can be

2 - investigations take as long as they take and you can be interviewed multiple times as new information comes to light

3 - generally not but can be justified, if your union rep is switched on they will have let this slide as it’s a great appeal point and potential grounds for unfair process at employment tribunal, but will be dependent on particular circumstances - e.g. no one else willing to carry out interviews and investigation at night. It’s more important the disciplinary manager is independent.

4 - nothing wrong with that if they already have compelling evidence

I’m not sure your grounds for explanation are strong. If you were unwell why were you at work taking medicine e that you hadn’t read the side effects of? How do you know the shift manager hadn’t already seen you asleep half an hour earlier and only woke you when they’d thought you’d had your break? As a manager yourself, how have you dealt with such things from your team in the past? As a manager do you think you should lead by example? I’m not really interested in the answers, just preparing you for one line of questioning at the next stage. In the meantime, make sure the union know everything and are not surprised by anything at the disciplinary meeting. They can help you a hell of a lot better than strangers on the internet who do not know your industry or employer.

FLM14

nicechap wrote: »

1 - not always but it certainly can be

2 - investigations take as long as they take and you can be interviewed multiple times as new information comes to light

3 - generally not but can be justified, if your union rep is switched on they will have let this slide as it’s a great appeal point and potential grounds for unfair process at employment tribunal, but will be dependent on particular circumstances - e.g. no one else willing to carry out interviews and investigation at night. It’s more important the disciplinary manager is independent.

4 - nothing wrong with that if they already have compelling evidence

I’m not sure your grounds for explanation are strong. If you were unwell why were you at work taking medicine e that you hadn’t read the side effects of? How do you know the shift manager hadn’t already seen you asleep half an hour earlier and only woke you when they’d thought you’d had your break? As a manager yourself, how have you dealt with such things from your team in the past? As a manager do you think you should lead by example? I’m not really interested in the answers, just preparing you for one line of questioning at the next stage. In the meantime, make sure the union know everything and are not surprised by anything at the disciplinary meeting. They can help you a hell of a lot better than strangers on the internet who do not know your industry or employer.

Greatly appreciate you answering all my points comprehensively.

I take note of the advice provided. The forum was used to get a general overview.