To tribunal or not to tribunal....that is the question?

mrsmummii

Hi was looking for a bit of advice.

I apologise if this is the wrong place to ask it. I recently returned back to work to a very large company after a long period off work due to stress (5 months) caused by my employer whilst I had grievance being investigated.

I believed my employer was discriminating against me due to disability. My grievance was upheld in full on a number of points and I recieved a formal apology, they implimented a companywide retraining and I was moved to a new department away from the person who carried out the discrimination as they agreed it was impossible for me to return.

Soon as I had an outcome I returned back to work on a phased return. Midway through my phased return I was asked to attend an attendance hearing and I was told that the manager of the new team was not privy to any information as to why I was absent from work or the results from the grievance due to data protection but that they had spoken to HR and that he felt he should give me a formal warning for attendance.

I was extremely unhappy about this so i felt it was the last straw and quit. I recieved a letter in the post stating I was given a formal warning due to absence relating to my disability. Which wasn't true i was absence due to stress as stated on my sick notes. I raised a another grievance querying why the grievance outcome was not taken into consideration as I have it in writing that they apologise for the undue stress caused. I queried why HR were not part of the absence meeting and that it was not reasonable to give a formal warning as this felt like a punishment for speaking about about the discrimination. I also stated that it took them 5 months to investigate and if this was excessive and i felt i was unable to return until after the grievance was completed as it involved reason able adjustments that I couldn't work without.

They have now written back to me that they offered me to return to another department temporarilly midway through the initial investigation so whereas as they appreciate the investigation took too long I could have returned (this is true, I turned it down because I was still stressed and I would be returning without any reason able adjustments which would be impossible ), and they said it is normal practice to apply the attendance procedure. They also said i could of appealled or halted the meeting at any time.They didn't address why the letter I recieved sited my absence reason as my disability

The grievance is now closed and I just would like some advise if this worth pursuing. I quit rather than appealing as I saw this situation as a final straw of an entire year of discrimination and errors and I honestly felt it amounted to constructive dismissal. I honestly believe it was reasonable in this case to adjust the attendance procedure, not because I think I'm special but because they made serious errors in the way they handled my disability which involved a considerable about of stress. For the person holding the meeting not to even have the facts of why i was absent is incredible and I didn't even know I could halt the meeting. Now more positively I start a new job early next year and I'm happy to have finally left the company however I don't know whether or not to continue fighting and take them to tribunal or whether or not legally the company have done nothing wrong. I'm considering seeing a solicitor but don't know whether or not legally I don't have a leg to stand on. I just want them to understand how their actions have affected my life this year. I would be so grateful for your advice

System

I've re-read that several times and it still makes no sense because when it gets past the second paragraph it starts to go all over the place so it is hard to work out the timeline of events. Can you put it in several bullet points what has happened. Facts only.

If it was about poor attendance, being disabled doesn't protect you from being fired for poor attendance. Whilst companies are required to make REASONABLE alterations to accommodate your disability they're not required to put up with you having multiple times off work and can dismiss you on health grounds.

getmore4less

mrsmummii wrote: »

..................
Soon as I had an outcome I returned back to work on a phased return. Midway through my phased return I was asked to attend an attendance hearing and I was told that the manager of the new team was not privy to any information as to why I was absent from work or the results from the grievance due to data protection but that they had spoken to HR and that he felt he should give me a formal warning for attendance.
..................

Is this for attendance in the new job on the phased return?

Ozzuk

Were you perhaps not meeting your agreed phased hours?

nicechap

mrsmummii wrote: »

Hi was looking for a bit of advice.

I apologise if this is the wrong place to ask it. I recently returned back to work to a very large company after a long period off work due to stress (5 months) caused by my employer whilst I had grievance being investigated.

I believed my employer was discriminating against me due to disability. My grievance was upheld in full on a number of points and I recieved a formal apology, they implimented a companywide retraining and I was moved to a new department away from the person who carried out the discrimination as they agreed it was impossible for me to return.

Soon as I had an outcome I returned back to work on a phased return. Midway through my phased return I was asked to attend an attendance hearing and I was told that the manager of the new team was not privy to any information as to why I was absent from work or the results from the grievance due to data protection but that they had spoken to HR and that he felt he should give me a formal warning for attendance.

I was extremely unhappy about this so i felt it was the last straw and quit. I recieved a letter in the post stating I was given a formal warning due to absence relating to my disability. Which wasn't true i was absence due to stress as stated on my sick notes. I raised a another grievance querying why the grievance outcome was not taken into consideration as I have it in writing that they apologise for the undue stress caused. I queried why HR were not part of the absence meeting and that it was not reasonable to give a formal warning as this felt like a punishment for speaking about about the discrimination. I also stated that it took them 5 months to investigate and if this was excessive and i felt i was unable to return until after the grievance was completed as it involved reason able adjustments that I couldn't work without.

They have now written back to me that they offered me to return to another department temporarilly midway through the initial investigation so whereas as they appreciate the investigation took too long I could have returned (this is true, I turned it down because I was still stressed and I would be returning without any reason able adjustments which would be impossible ), and they said it is normal practice to apply the attendance procedure. They also said i could of appealled or halted the meeting at any time.They didn't address why the letter I recieved sited my absence reason as my disability

The grievance is now closed and I just would like some advise if this worth pursuing. I quit rather than appealing as I saw this situation as a final straw of an entire year of discrimination and errors and I honestly felt it amounted to constructive dismissal. I honestly believe it was reasonable in this case to adjust the attendance procedure, not because I think I'm special but because they made serious errors in the way they handled my disability which involved a considerable about of stress. For the person holding the meeting not to even have the facts of why i was absent is incredible and I didn't even know I could halt the meeting. Now more positively I start a new job early next year and I'm happy to have finally left the company however I don't know whether or not to continue fighting and take them to tribunal or whether or not legally the company have done nothing wrong. I'm considering seeing a solicitor but don't know whether or not legally I don't have a leg to stand on. I just want them to understand how their actions have affected my life this year. I would be so grateful for your advice

Make sure you take all your evidence along with you, asking strangers on the internet is not going to get your employer to change their mind.

Comms69

mrsmummii wrote: »

Hi was looking for a bit of advice.

I apologise if this is the wrong place to ask it. I recently returned back to work to a very large company after a long period off work due to stress (5 months) caused by my employer whilst I had grievance being investigated. - please expand; what was the grievance and what was the stress cause.

I believed my employer was discriminating against me due to disability. - Why do you believe this? What is your disability? My grievance was upheld in full on a number of points and I recieved a formal apology, they implimented a companywide retraining and I was moved to a new department away from the person who carried out the discrimination as they agreed it was impossible for me to return. - was that the final outcome?

Soon as I had an outcome I returned back to work on a phased return. - was this your return over stress? Midway through my phased return I was asked to attend an attendance hearing and I was told that the manager of the new team was not privy to any information as to why I was absent from work or the results from the grievance due to data protection - non-sense, your manager needs to know your circumstances, or how can they adequately allocate work and accommodate your needs?? but that they had spoken to HR and that he felt he should give me a formal warning for attendance.

I was extremely unhappy about this so i felt it was the last straw and quit. - that is unfortunate, your non attendance was not due to your disability,You should've raised a grievance. I recieved a letter in the post stating I was given a formal warning due to absence relating to my disability. - no disciplinary panel of a major employer is that stupid. . Which wasn't true i was absence due to stress as stated on my sick notes. I raised a another grievance - you had quit?? querying why the grievance outcome was not taken into consideration as I have it in writing that they apologise for the undue stress caused. I queried why HR were not part of the absence meeting and that it was not reasonable to give a formal warning as this felt like a punishment for speaking about about the discrimination. - it wasn't anything to do with discrimination, you were off with stress. I also stated that it took them 5 months to investigate and if this was excessive and i felt i was unable to return until after the grievance was completed as it involved reason able adjustments that I couldn't work without. - I believe you have combined two separate issues

They have now written back to me that they offered me to return to another department temporarilly midway through the initial investigation so whereas as they appreciate the investigation took too long I could have returned (this is true, I turned it down because I was still stressed and I would be returning without any reason able adjustments which would be impossible ) - ah, that was a mistake and it does seem that your refusal to return could be a cause for a warning , and they said it is normal practice to apply the attendance procedure. They also said i could of appealled or halted the meeting at any time.They didn't address why the letter I recieved sited my absence reason as my disability - Probably an admin error

The grievance is now closed and I just would like some advise if this worth pursuing. - no I quit rather than appealing as I saw this situation as a final straw of an entire year of discrimination and errors and I honestly felt it amounted to constructive dismissal. - you need to go through internal procedures to claim CD, you didn't do that I honestly believe it was reasonable in this case to adjust the attendance procedure, not because I think I'm special but because they made serious errors in the way they handled my disability which involved a considerable about of stress. - Impossible to say on what you have currently written For the person holding the meeting not to even have the facts of why i was absent is incredible and I didn't even know I could halt the meeting. - But why didn't you provide them with the info???? Now more positively I start a new job early next year and I'm happy to have finally left the company however I don't know whether or not to continue fighting and take them to tribunal or whether or not legally the company have done nothing wrong. - You have 3 months less a day to go to tribunal, when did this happen?? I'm considering seeing a solicitor but don't know whether or not legally I don't have a leg to stand on. I just want them to understand how their actions have affected my life this year. I would be so grateful for your advice

A tribunal will not give you what you want. They don't care about your life. That's not me being nasty.


You're one of a huge number of individuals who work there, each with their own problems.


I don't see how you have a case. The letter was most likely an error, but it's your only evidence that this was remotely related to your disability.


You need to provide more background as to why you couldn't return, whether to the same team or to another team.


A grievance wouldn't necessarily lead to reasonable adjustments, if that's what you needed (and it's unclear what you actually wanted) you should've asked for a OH assessment.

Masomnia

Comms69 wrote: »

you need to go through internal procedures to claim CD, you didn't do that

Where did you get that from?

A grievance wouldn't necessarily lead to reasonable adjustments, if that's what you needed (and it's unclear what you actually wanted) you should've asked for a OH assessment.

Don't agree, the onus is on the employer to make reasonable adjustments and if they were aware (or reasonably should have been) that OP had a disability they should have referred them to OH. It's not up to the employee to ask.


I don't think this is a straight-forward one at all. Did you have a proper hearing about your attendance tat resulted in a formal warning? I don't get how you could have a meeting to discuss it all and them not get the reason for your absence correct in the outcome.

That said a warning for your attendance is not necessarily unfair, even if it is related to your disability. Given that it was in the context of a grievance that was upheld in the end it's not something I would have done though.

I'd get proper legal advice on whether a badly handled attendance meeting could amount to discrimination. It's not one I would rely on randomers on the internet for tbh.

Savvy_Sue

You've got a new job after an extended period of absence due to stress.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation, going to tribunal isn't going to improve your stress levels.

I'd let it go. Even if you win, the toll it will take won't be worth it.

but I stress, that is my opinion.

Comms69

Masomnia wrote: »

Where did you get that from? - Don't understand what you mean, the OP said they resigned instead of trying to sort it via internal channels



Don't agree, the onus is on the employer to make reasonable adjustments and if they were aware (or reasonably should have been) that OP had a disability they should have referred them to OH. It's not up to the employee to ask. - That isn't what I said. I said a grievance wouldn't result in reasonable adjustments, which is true. And actually there is no requirement to refer to OH. The employer is not required to be proactive in the way you describe.


I don't think this is a straight-forward one at all. Did you have a proper hearing about your attendance tat resulted in a formal warning? I don't get how you could have a meeting to discuss it all and them not get the reason for your absence correct in the outcome. - Agreed. Doesn't make sense, why not just tell the new manager?

That said a warning for your attendance is not necessarily unfair, even if it is related to your disability. Given that it was in the context of a grievance that was upheld in the end it's not something I would have done though. - The problem was refusing alternative work.

I'd get proper legal advice on whether a badly handled attendance meeting could amount to discrimination. It's not one I would rely on randomers on the internet for tbh.

I wouldn't waste the money, but if the OP is in a union, it's worth a call

Masomnia

Don't understand what you mean, the OP said they resigned instead of trying to sort it via internal channels

I mean more that you said that you need to exhaust the grievance before you can claim CD. I don't see why you should have to. I think it could in some circumstances harm your case if you do. 'Why, Mr/Mrs Comms, if you truly believed that the trust and confidence in your employer had irevocably broken down, did you raise a grievance? Surely if you raised a grievance you believed that the situation could have been resolved?' 'Well if it could be resolved then the implied term wasn't irrevocably broken was it? You weren't constructively dismissed were you?' Kind of thing.

And actually there is no requirement to refer to OH. The employer is not required to be proactive in the way you describe.

If you mean there is no statute that says you have to then no. But it's a brave/reckless employer that doesn't look into it. I don't see how the legislation could be read in any way other than a positive duty on the employer to see if reasonable adjustments are needed, and if they are then to make them. I read about a case a while ago about failure to make reasonable adjustments a while ago when the employer had already made some but didn't reduce the employee's workload (even though iirc she hadn't asked for it at the time) and she won. I remember thinking at the time that I'd bet my mortgage that this board would have told her to forget it. I'll look it up if anyone is interested. But it is a positive duty. The employer has to make reasonable adjustments if the employee is not able to fulfill the role at the level required of a non-disabled employee, and if they don't they are discriminating against the employee.

Savvy_Sue

Masomnia wrote: »

I mean more that you said that you need to exhaust the grievance before you can claim CD. I don't see why you should have to. I think it could in some circumstances harm your case if you do. 'Why, Mr/Mrs Comms, if you truly believed that the trust and confidence in your employer had irevocably broken down, did you raise a grievance? Surely if you raised a grievance you believed that the situation could have been resolved?' 'Well if it could be resolved then the implied term wasn't irrevocably broken was it? You weren't constructively dismissed were you?' Kind of thing.

I think it's a requirement of the ET process to exhaust internal procedures. Which is not, IMO, unreasonable - otherwise too many people would want to rush to ET or would threaten to do so without even trying to deal with the matter internally.