Plastic bag charge to double to 10p and apply in ALL shops - MSE News

maisie_cat

Personally I think that people should have got the message by now. Make customers buy a biodegradable bag @£1 every time if they are that stupid.
We used the waste cardboard boxes decades ago and there is no excuse

maisie_cat

tastyhog wrote: »

You can't really complain whilst you swan around in your pollution machine...

I just sold a car that did 69000 miles in 15 years, hardly swanning about, but the swanning about pollution machine does not kill week old calves or marine life in the same terrifying way

A._Badger

Ten years or so ago Fiends of the Earth (as they should more properly be known) went on record to say that plastic carriers were a minor problem. Now, thanks to media hype from the usual suspects they have become public enemy number one. Well, maybe after diesel cars.

But look what even one of the High Priests of 'Green', Professor Mike Hulme from the School of Environmental Sciences at the University of East Anglia, has had to say on the subject:

'In the recent flurry of moves to ban plastic bags a frequently cited statistic is that more than 100,000 marine mammals and sea turtles die each year from entanglement in, or ingestion of, plastic bags. The original scientific study upon which this estimate relied actually attributed these deaths to fishing tackle in the oceans, not plastic bags. Yet the terms "100,000 marine deaths" and "plastic bags" now circulate happily through our public discourse, solidified as established fact.

'But when is a fact a fact? Can facts change over time? And does it matter if they do? Science is instinctively referred to as the source and authenticator of facts such as the one cited above, and rightly so. Yet as this example shows, we need to be very careful about the veracity of the numbers we latch on to, and about what they signify. What may start out as a credible, yet qualified and provisional, scientific estimate may end up, either through distortion or mere negligence, enduring as an urban myth, apocryphal numbers - the modern equivalent of folklore'.

And don't let's get started on the environmental impact of cotton and other alternatives.

The truth is there are no easy answers to environmental problems but they are the ones people demand because they make them feel virtuous for little personal cost.

Norman_Castle

This is why the UK government introduced the charge https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/single-use-plastic-carrier-bags-why-were-introducing-the-charge/carrier-bags-why-theres-a-5p-charge



5. Benefits: why there’s a charge

The scheme aims to reduce the use of single-use plastic carrier bags, and the litter associated with them, by encouraging people to re-use bags.
In 2014 over 7.6 billion single-use plastic bags were given to customers by major supermarkets in England. That’s something like 140 bags per person, the equivalent of about 61,000 tonnes in total.
They take longer than other bags to degrade in the environment, can damage wildlife, and are extremely visible when littered in our towns, parks and the countryside.
Despite research showing that the average household already had 40 plastic bags around the home, the number of plastic bags taken from supermarkets increased for the fifth year running in 2014.
Similar 5p charges are also in place across Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
Since we introduced the scheme, the number of bags used has gone down by more than 80 percent in England.
We estimate that over the next 10 years the benefits of the scheme will include:

• an expected overall benefit of over £780 million to the UK economy
• up to £730 million raised for good causes
• £60 million savings in litter clean-up costs
• carbon savings of £13 million

Personally I think its wasteful to throw away bags just because replacements are free or cheap.

The continual sulking by people resenting not getting a "free" bag for their shopping is laughable.

A._Badger

If you choose to take the word of politicians then I'm afraid rational discussion becomes impossible. They do what they do to win votes from people who like to have their opinions handed to them nicely packaged and in bite sized chunks.

Paul_Herring

Norman_Castle wrote: »

Paper bags will have an environmental cost

Yup. And they're worse than plastic bags:

it takes almost four times as much energy to manufacture a paper bag as a plastic bag. Paper-bag manufacture uses 20 times as much water as plastic and paper requires more energy to be recycled.

maisie_cat wrote: »

but the swanning about pollution machine does not kill week old calves or marine life in the same terrifying way

Nor do Morrisons plastic bags.

maman

Norman_Castle wrote: »

The continual sulking by people resenting not getting a "free" bag for their shopping is laughable.

Laugh away if you want but I feel strongly that when I'm using/choosing a shop I'm paying for the service as well as the product. It seems to me that the price I'm paying is rising but the quality of service is falling.


Many years ago, you went to the shop with your basket or shopping bag and most of the fruit and veg was put straight into your bag and other things like fish and meat were wrapped in paper or a paper bag.


Now we have masses of unnecessary packaging on many items, limited service and no bags. I can't help conclude that Morrison's is taking the easier option in charging customers for paper bags while making a big publicity thing of being environmentally friendly.

tastyhog

LadyDee wrote: »

OK, I'll bite. In answer to your inane comment: I don't "swan" around anywhere. I use my car very sparingly for very short journeys when absolutely necessary. Other times, I walk or take a bus. My car is 8 years old and I've only done 16,000 miles - hardly "swanning".

That's 16,000 miles more pollution that someone that walks everywhere.

That's a hell of a lot more pollution than a few carrier bags

System

LadyDee wrote: »

OK, I'll bite. In answer to your inane comment: I don't "swan" around anywhere. I use my car very sparingly for very short journeys when absolutely necessary. Other times, I walk or take a bus. My car is 8 years old and I've only done 16,000 miles - hardly "swanning".

I drive about the same amount as you and though I normally walk to work, I use my car for shopping as I live alone and don't spend enough to warrant doing supermarket shopping online. Then I go to supermarkets and buy YS items which are not available to online shoppers.

My car is one of those with zero car tax and low CO2 emissions.

Cornucopia

A._Badger wrote: »

If you choose to take the word of politicians then I'm afraid rational discussion becomes impossible. They do what they do to win votes from people who like to have their opinions handed to them nicely packaged and in bite sized chunks.

There's definitely something awry with this particular issue.

Official UK waste and recycling channels do not send plastic to be dumped in the Sea. I can't see how it can be much clearer than that. I think it's one of those Middle-class guilt narratives that crop up from time-to-time.

I use spare cardboard boxes for my shopping. The stronger ones can be reused several times before they start falling apart. They are free, save the retailer money for disposal and provide for further use rather than being sent straight to incineration or landfill.