Lodger Limitations

JP29

Hi there,


I am facing a situation which may get out of hand quite quickly and I am not sure where I stand to maintain myself in a completely legal position.


I am a researcher at a university and a homeowner, I live alone but have two spare bedrooms. We have an esteemed academic visiting the department from China to collaborate on a project. They will spend no longer than 8 months in the UK and I offered them one of my spare rooms for the duration of their stay, in which case they would be one of my lodgers and I would be a live in landlord, I appreciate all the responsibilities regarding gas and electrical safety, and provided I make less than £7500 there are no tax implications.


However as we have discussed more, it turns out the academic would also like to bring their 2 year old child with them and also their mother to help look after the child.


In this case they would require both bedrooms, which is still fine, that doesn't really change much. However yesterday they said that both their partner and mother in law may spend a short while in the UK to do some tourism and help them settle in.


In this situation, there would be two mother in laws sharing one large bedroom (requires putting in an extra bed) and then the couple sharing the other bedroom with their baby. This won't always be the case hopefully.


I feel like this situation has escalated enormously and perhaps I should pull out, however I am worried this would irreversibly damage our working relationship.


Would I be right in thinking as live in landlord I am allowed to rent to two unrelated people before the house becomes a HMO (this means there would be 3 households under one roof)


Therefore if I am renting the two rooms to the entirety of another family there would only be two households under the roof, therefore I wouldn't qualify as HMO despite there being more people living there?? This is where it all gets confusing.


But as they are only visiting a short while do they even count as lodgers at all? The academic visitor will be my lodger and the contract will be between me and her and she will pay any rent in one lump sum.


If other members of her family come and go at various intervals would they not be counted as lodgers even if they stayed for a month?


I can't find anything else on the internet explaining the exact legal standing of this situation, however as a simplified way of looking at it, could I flip it around and say if a large family lived in a house and let out one spare room to a lodger then they wouldn't require a HMO licence, so I probably won't need one either.


Any help and advice would be amazing

sevenhills

Your home is a house in multiple occupation (HMO) if both of the following apply:

• at least 3 tenants live there, forming more than 1 household
• you share toilet, bathroom or kitchen facilities with other tenants

Your home is a large HMO if both of the following apply:

• at least 5 tenants live there, forming more than 1 household
• you share toilet, bathroom or kitchen facilities with other tenants

https://www.gov.uk/private-renting/houses-in-multiple-occupation


I am on spareroom.com it would be quite easy to find another room in your local area, if there are too many people for your household.

gomer

Blimey.....

Bossypants

Honestly, in your position I would be looking to politely extricate myself from the situation asap. It might make things a little awkward, but from having offered a room to one single individual you are all of a sudden finding yourself playing host to a family of five, comprising three generations. Do you expect someone who has stretched your generous offer this far already, when they haven't even arrived yet, is suddenly going to become polite and respectful once they are actually in your home, and outnumber you four adults to one?

I appreciate you are worried that this might damage your relationship, but look at it this way: Politely explaining that your home is simply too small to accommodate their needs but that you would be happy to help them look for a flat in which they would be more comfortable might make things a little awkward/frosty at first. On the other hand, keeping mum in the name of politeness and trying to grit your teeth through this is almost certainly going to erupt in a much more scorched-earth type way.

In sum, you are allowed to say no and I would really suggest that you do so, for everyone's sake.

moneyistooshorttomention

gomer wrote: »

Blimey.....

That was rather my feeling - in between alarm bells ringing - from my personal experience with lodgers years back (which did include ones from a range of countries ......for good or bad......). European - fine (similar attitudes in a lot of respects). Soviet Union - fine (anything was luxury to them at the time - hence deciding they were being very well-treated). One or two other countries.........errrrm.....not so much.....errrm....:cool:

:whistle::whistle::whistle:

If I had my time again - including with a couple that expected to have rather more people coming into my home than expected......lets just say I wouldnt have taken them in.

Remember there are some cultures that WILL not "lose face"....and there was a time when I didn't use to believe that......I do now....

gomer

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

That was rather my feeling - in between alarm bells ringing - from my personal experience with lodgers years back (which did include ones from a range of countries ......for good or bad......). European - fine (similar attitudes in a lot of respects). Soviet Union - fine (anything was luxury to them at the time - hence deciding they were being very well-treated). One or two other countries.........errrrm.....not so much.....errrm....:cool:

:whistle::whistle::whistle:

If I had my time again - there are certainly one or two that I would not have taken in - if I'd known how different their cultural expectations were and that they would be trying to impose "their ways" on me in my own home.....

To be honest I was expecting the entire village to invite themselves next. Every sentence seemed to introduce another new in law lol

moneyistooshorttomention

Bossypants wrote: »

Honestly, in your position I would be looking to politely extricate myself from the situation asap. It might make things a little awkward, but from having offered a room to one single individual you are all of a sudden finding yourself playing host to a family of five, comprising three generations. Do you expect someone who has stretched your generous offer this far already, when they haven't even arrived yet, is suddenly going to become polite and respectful once they are actually in your home, and outnumber you four adults to one?

I appreciate you are worried that this might damage your relationship, but look at it this way: Politely explaining that your home is simply too small to accommodate their needs but that you would be happy to help them look for a flat in which they would be more comfortable might make things a little awkward/frosty at first. On the other hand, keeping mum in the name of politeness and trying to grit your teeth through this is almost certainly going to erupt in a much more scorched-earth type way.

In sum, you are allowed to say no and I would really suggest that you do so, for everyone's sake.

:T

Agreed.

Get yourself out of this situation - right now.

Bear in mind the cultural "won't lose face" thing and, if it's at all possible to find some way that you can be seen to be doing them a favour (somehow!) finding someplace else for them to live. Maybe making out something along the lines of "My place isn't high status enough/luxurious enough for you and Such Special Guests should have most Esteemed level of accommodation - and I've found somewhere really special you can all stay instead".

That would get you off the hook - and help them "save face".

I'm remembering when someone I know went round to my home when I was out one time - and then asked me whether I'd said the lodgers concerned could use all the facilities no other lodger had shared with me - as they'd been doing so. I hadn't......

DottieDam

As an ex-researcher at a University I can understand how you don't want to let anyone down but this is taking the P.

I'd talk to the person arranging their visit and explain how your generous offer has been put upon. And see if they are willing to help find somewhere else.

Having lived in China for a time I know first hand how different our cultures can be and you will be massively out numbered in your own home. I personally wouldn't do it, but maybe you're a much nicer person than me!

jonnygee2

I feel like this situation has escalated

You don't say!

I don't think you need to worry about HMO rules if the extra people are just staying a week or so. These rules are enforced by councils, it takes them several months just to send a letter for a start!

They do seem to be inviting a few people round though! Maybe the experience will be fun. Maybe it will be overwhelming. Maybe an absolute nightmare! Difficult to say!

moneyistooshorttomention

DottieDam wrote: »

Having lived in China for a time I know first hand how different our cultures can be and you will be massively out numbered in your own home. I personally wouldn't do it, but maybe you're a much nicer person than me!

I'm so glad you said that - as I'd been wondering whether to say what the nationality of those particular lodgers was that were so troublesome to me back when.........:cool:

G_M

Any home-owner taking in lodgers should establish firm ground rules. That means things like how much of the property the lodger(s) have access to, whether at all times or limited times, hether they can have visitors and if so whether day-time, evening,overnight and if overnight then how many nights and how often. Also money- not just rent, but payment for shared consumables, not to mention who cleans what and how often etc

If you don't establish these things upfront, you will inevitaly have problems later.

What rules you choose to put in place is of course up to you, but your lodger cannot impose new rules, people or costs on you.....

Either

* agree to it all if you're happy to, or
*clearly set the rules, in writing, and enforce them, or
* find another lodger.


See also
* Lodgers: advice & links for landlords & lodgers