Asked to provide remedies sought statement to employer

Mr_Gashead

Hi all,

I have an employment tribunal date set for October 2019 and today received an email from my employer requesting remedies sought in writing by Monday 10 December. I don’t have any legal representation and plan to represent myself, my question being can somebody explain briefly what they are requesting? Also my case is about the reduction of holiday entitlement from 28 to 19.6 after a my original employer went bust and a new employer came in and we were ensured our terms and conditions won’t change.

jobbingmusician

I could be wrong, but it looks to me as if they are opening negotiations for a settlement. 'Remedies sought' would suggest to me that they want to know what you are hoping for from this ET.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/problems-at-work/employment-tribunals-from-29-july-2013/employment-tribunals-valuing-a-claim/compensatory-award/calculating-the-compensatory-award/employment-tribunals-preparing-a-schedule-of-loss/employment-tribunals-sample-schedule-of-loss/ might help.

sangie595

jobbingmusician wrote: »

I could be wrong, but it looks to me as if they are opening negotiations for a settlement. 'Remedies sought' would suggest to me that they want to know what you are hoping for from this ET.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/problems-at-work/employment-tribunals-from-29-july-2013/employment-tribunals-valuing-a-claim/compensatory-award/calculating-the-compensatory-award/employment-tribunals-preparing-a-schedule-of-loss/employment-tribunals-sample-schedule-of-loss/ might help.

That is the most likely reason.

There is no absolute right to no contractual changes in the situation described, so the issue will come down to whether they had lawful grounds and can show they did. So they probably want to cut their losses as it costs money to go to tribunal over something that probably isn't worth a lot. So what was the reason you went to tribunal? You must have wanted something to do that.

Mr_Gashead

Thank you for the replies,

The reason I went to a tribunal is the fact we were assured in writing that although the change in company was not an official TUPE but that terms and conditions we were employed on would not be changed. The new company did change the holiday entitlement from 28 to 19.6 so what I want is to be granted my contractual holiday entitlement of 28 days. And to be compensated for the 8 days holiday that I have missed out on this year.

jobbingmusician

I expect that you know what you are doing, but I feel compelled to check because the figures are so similar.


Did your old holiday entitlement of 28 (days per year, I assume?) include bank holidays?


Does your new holiday entitlement of 19.6?


Do you work full time? If so, you are entitled to 28 days' holiday (INCLUDING BH) per year. 19.6 days is therefore below the statutory minimum even if you add on the 8 standard BH.

Mr_Gashead

I work 12 hour shifts on a 4 on 4 off shift pattern of days and nights.

So 19.6 is the correct legal amount

My argument is that we were getting 28 before and the new company has carried over all terms from the previous contract apart from the holiday entitlement.

I work bank holidays if it falls as part of my shift pattern and get paid double time for it.

sangie595

If that is what you want, ask for it.

But be aware of what I said - regardless of what was said in writing, TUPE, or anything else, if the employer lawfully changes a term then there is little in reality that you can do. Yes you can go to tribunal. You might even win (although that can't be guaranteed). But if the employer chooses to start looking for reasons and strategies, you have a lot more to lose than they do. So just be cautious and don't get cocky or greedy. Ask for what you want, and nothing more.

Mr_Gashead

Thanks sangie,
All I’ve asked from the beginning is to be given the 28 days that we were having before.

The fact that they have given me a contract with incorrect hours and the clause that I accrue holiday based on my average hours worked over the previous 17 weeks. Wich they are now still refusing to honour as they made the mistake of giving me a contract with the clauses of a zero hour contract but also a guarantee of 48 hours per week when in fact it should be 42.

nicechap

I wonder if the argument is about the definition of “days”. As you work 4 on and 4 off, compared to a 5 day week, 19.6 of your days is equivalent to 28 days of a normal working week.

Is a day defined within your contract? Or is it a shift? I get the feeling you will be arguing it was custom and practice that you had 28 working days off prior to the tupe like event whereas the new management are saying 28 normal days which is 19.6 of your days.

I think you need to take your contract and any other evidence you have and seek independent legal advice as will be a very technical argument for an employment tribunal to understand and rule on.

In terms of your demand position, I would always suggest going in higher than what you’d finally expect so as there is some room for negotiation but I’d also estimate their costs are likely to be (management time, legal advertising de etc) to have an idea whether there is an overlap between respective positions.

One other thought, it’s not just this year that you believe you are 8 days worse off, it’s every future year until you leave too.

Mr_Gashead

Thanks nice chap,

To confirm when on annual leave we receive 12 hours of pay per day.

This morning I sent the remedies sought and asked for payment of 8 days loss of holiday in 2018 at my daily rate and also to be given 28 days annual leave for the duration of my employment with the company.

I have sent copies of contract in the disclosure documents aswell as the proof that we were receiving 28 days annual leave prior.

sangie595

Mr_Gashead wrote: »

Thanks nice chap,

To confirm when on annual leave we receive 12 hours of pay per day.

This morning I sent the remedies sought and asked for payment of 8 days loss of holiday in 2018 at my daily rate and also to be given 28 days annual leave for the duration of my employment with the company.

I have sent copies of contract in the disclosure documents aswell as the proof that we were receiving 28 days annual leave prior.

You might get away with it, but asking for something for the duration - not even a tribunal will agree to that. The future cannot be bound in that way. That is why TUPE can't do it. Things change, and business needs trump a lot of things. It'd be a daft employer who bound themselves in that way - and set a precedent for others to claim too? After all, your original employer went t**s up already, so saving the company and maintaining employment will always trump your holiday - and the employer has much of the support of the law to decide what that means.