Overpayment - advice needed please!

hellopigeon

Hi everyone!

I work part time in the NHS sector on a zero hour contract. I have been overpaid by just over £700 over the course of four months. It came to light last month and I genuinely didn’t know as I work completely different hours each month and there is never an regular amount I receive. I don’t even keep a diary of my working hours, it’s gets written at work and I just assume it’s all done correctly! (I’m obviously going to be stricter with writing hours somewhere I can check in the future).

Anyway... last month I was informed of it. Asked to pay back immediately that day which I said I can’t really afford. I was emailed an outline of our conversation where the payroll woman told me she was disappointed I was unable to pay straight away and I replied immediately asking if we could arrange a repayment plan.... I had no response so three weeks later I emailed again and asked why I still hadn’t received a response. I got a snooty message from a higher up manager saying I should have been in touch much sooner to arrange a repayment plan. That is exactly what I DID get in touch about on the same day that I initially replied to the woman in payroll, the manager who responded to me was also cc’ed on the first email I sent so they also initially ignored me for almost a month too!

Anyway... pay day has been and I had no wages paid into my account and have received no payslip to even inform me of the deduction. Everyone else was given their payslip but the manager didn’t bring mine and just said they will arrange to talk to me later in the week.

I’m pretty annoyed. YES, I was overpaid and I accept I have to pay it back but it will now cause me financial difficulty that I received nothing this month. I guess what I’m basically asking is..... are they allowed to just take the money, not inform me and not even provide me with a payslip?! I haven’t worked much for the past month compared to what I have been working as im also at uni and have had deadlines etc, so it’s probably going to now take me a few months to pay this back, I just feel like I have no incentive to even bother dragging myself to work to not get paid at all for the foreseeable future. Do I have a leg to stand on with re-asking for a repayment plan or can they just do this?

Comms69

Pretty sure every trust has electronic records of both hours worked and shifts booked to work- especially for bank workers.

Have you checked that you were actually overpaid?

Berkshire_Beancounter

I found this link by googling (other search engines are available):

https://www.shoosmiths.co.uk/client-resources/legal-updates/overpayment-of-wages-when-and-how-can-employers-recover-3973.aspx

Caveat: this is over 6 years old so I don't know if any more recent legislation has updated this.

It basically says an employer can't recover overpayments unless it's permitted by the employment contract, or with the prior consent of the employee - which it doesn't sound like you've given. Do you have a copy of your employment contract that you can check with regard to what it says about overpayments?

The link also says there is no limit in what can be recovered in respect of wages so in theory they could keep deducting your whole salary until it's repaid .

However my previous firm used to deduct any overpayments over the period in which they'd occurred which seems more reasonable - so if you've been overpaid over 4 months they should take that long to recover the money from you.

I also would expect them to issue you with a payslip so you know how much has been deducted, otherwise if they made a mistake in overpaying you, it's not inconceivable they could make a mistake in reclaiming and take more than they should....

spadoosh

Id point to your employer that they have a duty of care towards you. One which means they shouldnt leave you in financial hardship due to their mistakes.

Yes you do have to pay it back but they shouldnt leave you struggling.

Put in a complaint say theyve breeched their implied term of trust and confidence. CC the highest person you can.

Theyll almost certainly have something saying they can recover overpayments. What they cant do is leave you unable to pay your financial commitments.

Undervalued

spadoosh wrote: »

Id point to your employer that they have a duty of care towards you. One which means they shouldnt leave you in financial hardship due to their mistakes.

Yes you do have to pay it back but they shouldnt leave you struggling.

Put in a complaint say theyve breeched their implied term of trust and confidence. CC the highest person you can.

Theyll almost certainly have something saying they can recover overpayments. What they cant do is leave you unable to pay your financial commitments.

Who says it is their mistake?

The OP said.....

I don’t even keep a diary of my working hours, it’s gets written at work and I just assume it’s all done correctly! (I’m obviously going to be stricter with writing hours somewhere I can check in the future).

It is as much the duty of employee as it is the employer to ensure that they are being paid correctly. I am assuming (although I may be wrong) that as this is zero hour it is a relatively low paid job? If so then a discrepancy of this sort of size should have been easy to spot.

As you say there almost certainly is a clause in the contract allowing them to recover overpayment. If so then the OP has already given permission for the deduction.

All that being said, I would like to think that a large employer would show some flexibility although I am not convinced they are legally obliged to in this case.

spadoosh

I took its get written as in someone else writes it. Probably wrong on that but doesnt matter.

You correctly point out that the emnpoyer has as much duty to ensure they are paid correctly. It seems both parties failed on that front.

Its doesnt detract that a company isnt allowed to leave an employee in financial hardship due to overpayments (irrespective of fault) the contractual permission for deductions does not over rule the implied term of trust and confidence which the employer has clearly failed firstly with the poor communication surrounding the issue and secondly leaving an employee with what sounds like no wages when its blatantly obvious that most people need their wages to live.

From ACAS

Overpayment
If a worker has been genuinely overpaid, you are entitled to reclaim the overpayment.

However, this can be a complicated area, so it is advisable not to simply deduct money from a worker's future pay to fix a mistake or overpayment. Instead, it is best to discuss and agree a repayment arrangement.

If the worker agrees, a written agreement should be made that includes:

the reason for the overpayment
the amount of money overpaid
how repayments will be made (for example, deduction from pay, repayment by cheque or electronic bank transfer) and how often (this should be reasonable).
If the worker does not agree, then you should contact the Acas helpline on 0300 123 1100 to discuss your options.

Undervalued

spadoosh wrote: »

I took its get written as in someone else writes it. Probably wrong on that but doesnt matter.

You correctly point out that the emnpoyer has as much duty to ensure they are paid correctly. It seems both parties failed on that front.

Its doesnt detract that a company isnt allowed to leave an employee in financial hardship due to overpayments (irrespective of fault) the contractual permission for deductions does not over rule the implied term of trust and confidence which the employer has clearly failed firstly with the poor communication surrounding the issue and secondly leaving an employee with what sounds like no wages when its blatantly obvious that most people need their wages to live.

From ACAS

What are you basing that on?

I would sincerely hope any large employer would show flexibility but I struggle to see the legal obligation you clearly believe exists.

Anyway, imagine this situation....

Suppose the OP worked, not for the NHS, but for a struggling "one man band" that was only just solvent. Would you expect them to wait months for the money if it was largely or entirely the employee's fault?

spadoosh

Undervalued wrote: »

What are you basing that on?

I would sincerely hope any large employer would show flexibility but I struggle to see the legal obligation you clearly believe exists.

Anyway, imagine this situation....

Suppose the OP worked, not for the NHS, but for a struggling "one man band" that was only just solvent. Would you expect them to wait months for the money if it was largely or entirely the employee's fault?

Implied terms of trust and confidence. To treat each other fairly.

You know yourself this isnt fair which is why youre having to use a situation where it might be considered more (as in more than unfair) fair.

Yep we dont know all the details, i do accept that. But ive gone off the assumption that the OPs timekeeping is recorded by someone else. The reference to 'its written' and 'i assumed it was done correctly' implies that the OP isnt the one doing the timekeeping when they are at work.

Either way its unfair to not respond to an employee and deduct all overpayments when theyve requested a repayment plan when working for an organisation that should be more than capable of accommodating that.

Comms69

spadoosh wrote: »

Implied terms of trust and confidence. To treat each other fairly.

You know yourself this isnt fair which is why youre having to use a situation where it might be considered more (as in more than unfair) fair.

Yep we dont know all the details, i do accept that. But ive gone off the assumption that the OPs timekeeping is recorded by someone else. The reference to 'its written' and 'i assumed it was done correctly' implies that the OP isnt the one doing the timekeeping when they are at work.

Either way its unfair to not respond to an employee and deduct all overpayments when theyve requested a repayment plan when working for an organisation that should be more than capable of accommodating that.

I will say this - as a bank worker for the NHS it is drilled into you to check your shifts.


So I do sympathise with the OP. Especially as it's not a large amount of money over 4 months.


But I do think that atleast some of the blame is on the OP. That said, no workforce advisor in the NHS would agree to deducting full wages. And any deduction wouldn't come from a manager saying - "we'll talk later."


So I would suggest that someone simply hasn't authorised the shifts.

jobbingmusician

I'm VERY unimpressed with the employer, whatever the rights and wrongs of the employee side. To be snotty about 'you should have been in touch' when the employee HAD been in touch, with no reply. And simply to fail to provide a payslip or any notification as to what's going on....words fail me!

hellopigeon

Thanks for all the advice! Although I’m kind of even more unsure about it all now 😂

I know I am partly to blame for not keeping a personal note of when I work, i really do. I’ve been in contact with one of the managers who is coming to see me tomorrow to discuss the overpayment. I did ask by email what was happening with my pay this month and if I could at least be given a pay slip so I can work out what I have left to pay and she told me she wasn’t prepared to discuss it over email which made me kind of nervous because... why would she not be able to tell me by email?! I literally feel like I’m some kind of thief who’s about to be completely shamed tomorrow morning!! No idea what to expect. Sigh!