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Racial Discrim Case, EMPLOYERS ADMITTED FAULT!
CBoogie
Posts: 61 Forumite
Right so, long story short - I worked for a company for around 5 months (it was a FTC for 10). During the five months I was subjected to direct racial discrimination (references to slavery, and supposedly carrying weaponry because of my colour) in the workplace in front of management and other members of staff. Things got really bad and I handed in my notice and filed a grievance at the same time. The individual who made these comments against me was signed off sick then eventually handed in his notice and then found another job. So he never was punished for the comments made,
The company took around a month to first invite me to a grievance meeting to discuss my claim, then took a further 3 week to come back with an outcome. In the outcome they have basically said that witness corroborated my versions of events however, management have apologised but said that I agreed for the issue to be handled informally (which is crazy, because management didn't give me the opportunity to decide wether or not I wanted to take it further, they informed me that it would be dealt with informally to help working environments ). Also, that if i had approached HR from the first comment that the further comments would not have happened, so they couldn't uphold my grievance.
So I appealed and it went to the MD of the company. at the meeting the MD 'seemed' to be on my side. Apologising for the way I've been treated/dealt with etc. He asked me to consider taking my job back - and also said that there would be manatory training for all managers to complete so they know what to do in these kind of situations etc. The following day, the MD called me and offered my job back formally w/ back pay, flexible hours etc etc and asked me to consider it. A few days later I called back and declined the job as I no longer wanted to work for the company. He was taken aback and then said I'd receive his outcome within the week.
3 weeks later I am chasing his PA for a response, and have now involved ACAS to help mediate. I told ACAS that I no longer wanted to work for that company and that I just wanted what I would have earned had I still been in the company, which was around £9k. The MD refused stating that he couldnt understand why i didnt want to return back (umm....??). /he eventually said that if I didnt want to return the most they would give me is £2.5k, which I find is an absolute kick in the teeth. I declined and now I'm heading to tribunal. The claim has been submitted but my thing is, I dont really want to go to court as ACAS have said it can take up to a year to be heard. This experience has been so mentally draining my DR has signed me off for the next 3 months. What can I do to get a successful claim from my ex-employers and close this chapter?
The company took around a month to first invite me to a grievance meeting to discuss my claim, then took a further 3 week to come back with an outcome. In the outcome they have basically said that witness corroborated my versions of events however, management have apologised but said that I agreed for the issue to be handled informally (which is crazy, because management didn't give me the opportunity to decide wether or not I wanted to take it further, they informed me that it would be dealt with informally to help working environments ). Also, that if i had approached HR from the first comment that the further comments would not have happened, so they couldn't uphold my grievance.
So I appealed and it went to the MD of the company. at the meeting the MD 'seemed' to be on my side. Apologising for the way I've been treated/dealt with etc. He asked me to consider taking my job back - and also said that there would be manatory training for all managers to complete so they know what to do in these kind of situations etc. The following day, the MD called me and offered my job back formally w/ back pay, flexible hours etc etc and asked me to consider it. A few days later I called back and declined the job as I no longer wanted to work for the company. He was taken aback and then said I'd receive his outcome within the week.
3 weeks later I am chasing his PA for a response, and have now involved ACAS to help mediate. I told ACAS that I no longer wanted to work for that company and that I just wanted what I would have earned had I still been in the company, which was around £9k. The MD refused stating that he couldnt understand why i didnt want to return back (umm....??). /he eventually said that if I didnt want to return the most they would give me is £2.5k, which I find is an absolute kick in the teeth. I declined and now I'm heading to tribunal. The claim has been submitted but my thing is, I dont really want to go to court as ACAS have said it can take up to a year to be heard. This experience has been so mentally draining my DR has signed me off for the next 3 months. What can I do to get a successful claim from my ex-employers and close this chapter?
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Comments
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If you don't want to accept their settlement then you need to continue with proceedings. There is a very good chance the company will settle at the 11th hour but companies rely on people feeling as you do and dropping the case so it's essentially a case of letting it go or gritting your teeth and seeing it through
It stinks but that is how the system works..I Would Rather Climb A Mountain Than Crawl Into A Hole
MSE Florida wedding .....no problem0 -
I don’t think you’ll get £9k to be honest.
The company have taken it seriously, taken action, the individual is no longer there ( you don’t get to decide the punishment ) and offered your job back with back pay.
At this moment I’m not sure you’d even win a tribunal.
Personally I would have taken their offer of job back; failing that £2.5 seems a reasonable settlement.1 -
Right so, long story short - I worked for a company for around 5 months (it was a FTC for 10). During the five months I was subjected to direct racial discrimination (references to slavery, and supposedly carrying weaponry because of my colour) in the workplace in front of management and other members of staff. Things got really bad and I handed in my notice and filed a grievance at the same time. The individual who made these comments against me was signed off sick then eventually handed in his notice and then found another job. So he never was punished for the comments made,
The company took around a month to first invite me to a grievance meeting to discuss my claim, then took a further 3 week to come back with an outcome. In the outcome they have basically said that witness corroborated my versions of events however, management have apologised but said that I agreed for the issue to be handled informally (which is crazy, because management didn't give me the opportunity to decide wether or not I wanted to take it further, they informed me that it would be dealt with informally to help working environments ). Also, that if i had approached HR from the first comment that the further comments would not have happened, so they couldn't uphold my grievance.
So I appealed and it went to the MD of the company. at the meeting the MD 'seemed' to be on my side. Apologising for the way I've been treated/dealt with etc. He asked me to consider taking my job back - and also said that there would be manatory training for all managers to complete so they know what to do in these kind of situations etc. The following day, the MD called me and offered my job back formally w/ back pay, flexible hours etc etc and asked me to consider it. A few days later I called back and declined the job as I no longer wanted to work for the company. He was taken aback and then said I'd receive his outcome within the week.
3 weeks later I am chasing his PA for a response, and have now involved ACAS to help mediate. I told ACAS that I no longer wanted to work for that company and that I just wanted what I would have earned had I still been in the company, which was around £9k. The MD refused stating that he couldnt understand why i didnt want to return back (umm....??). /he eventually said that if I didnt want to return the most they would give me is £2.5k, which I find is an absolute kick in the teeth. I declined and now I'm heading to tribunal. The claim has been submitted but my thing is, I dont really want to go to court as ACAS have said it can take up to a year to be heard. This experience has been so mentally draining my DR has signed me off for the next 3 months. What can I do to get a successful claim from my ex-employers and close this chapter?
You need to think like a business, it might not be what you want but is fighting this worth the money you may get extra? Be pragmatic and considering moving on with life.
The company have taken it seriously but the fact you've made yourself ill is down to you, not them.
I'd be very surprised however if you went back with a counter offer of £4-5k and an agreed reference (so important!) that they would refuse to get this whole issue past them.
Just if you do then fake confidence and the strength to see a tribunal through to the end.Don't trust a forum for advice. Get proper paid advice. Any advice given should always be checked0 -
I don’t think you’ll get £9k to be honest.
The company have taken it seriously, taken action, the individual is no longer there ( you don’t get to decide the punishment ) and offered your job back with back pay.
At this moment I’m not sure you’d even win a tribunal.
Personally I would have taken their offer of job back; failing that £2.5 seems a reasonable settlement.
It's not what you'll want to hear OP but I agree with the above. For you to win a tribunal you'd have to demonstrate that the company were negligent in the situation and I can't see any evidence of this. You'd have had to exhaust their grievance process and it doesn't appear you did so, only submitting this after handing in your notice. Added to this they found in your favour (although they can't punish the individual) and they've offered you your job back, including back pay. All this will count against you.
Honestly I don't actually think the company have done anything wrong. I too am not convinced you'll win a tribunal.
I'd have also taken the job back, even if you were to use it as a temporary stop gap to find another job. At least then you'd have all your backdated pay and a job until you find another. If you really don't wish to do this then £2.5k doesn't sound unreasonable, although you could probably push for a bit more.0 -
How long ago was this?
Have you had other jobs?
If not, why not?
You need to research similar cases and see what the awards were.
If you refuse a reasonable offer and continue the case, things might go against you at the tribunal. In some cases they can award costs to the other side.
Asking for your salary since you've quit up to the current time wouldn't normally be considered reasonable unless it was short term.
If it takes you 6 months to find another job, that wouldn't be considered the companies fault.Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.0 -
So ONE person made racist remarks, you didn't report any to HR, you then quit and raised a grievance, this individual has been sacked, manager training in place, and you have been offered your job backwith back pay?
Sounds like the company have acted sensibly. I'm not sure a tribunal would agree with your demands.Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')
No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)2 -
It's not what you'll want to hear OP but I agree with the above. For you to win a tribunal you'd have to demonstrate that the company were negligent in the situation and I can't see any evidence of this. You'd have had to exhaust their grievance process and it doesn't appear you did so, (their grievance policy states to handle things informally first then if all else fails go, start a grievance. Which I've done. I had a grievance, had the meeting then appealed the decision. then had the appeal meeting. SO i exhausted the company grievance policy. only submitting this after handing in your notice. Added to this they found in your favour (although they can't punish the individual) and they've offered you your job back, including back pay. All this will count against you. Its not a resonable offer as they believe this has had no psychological damage to myself - that I would just be fine walking back into an establishment that let me down. As the discrimination took place in an OPEN environment and management heard ALL of the comments and did not act EVER.How long ago was this? Within the last year/B]
Have you had other jobs?Ive not had another job
If not, why not? I've been signed off sick due to stress and low mood.
You need to research similar cases and see what the awards were. The average discrimination case was between £9-36k
If you refuse a reasonable offer and continue the case, things might go against you at the tribunal. In some cases they can award costs to the other side.
Asking for your salary since you've quit up to the current time wouldn't normally be considered reasonable unless it was short term. I was on a FTC for 10 months so I had 5 months left.So ONE person made racist remarks, you didn't report any to HR I was never told that I could go to HR as my manager TOLD me this was going to handled informally, you then quit and raised a grievance, this individual has been sackedHe was not sacked, he left before any disciplinary action, manager training in place, and you have been offered your job backwith back pay?
Sounds like the company have acted sensibly. I'm not sure a tribunal would agree with your demands.
What I dont think you all are understanding, is that this happened in an open environment. So other colleagues had heard, management had heard and did nothing about it. discrimination of the nature with I endured is GROSS MISCONDUCT, but this did NOT happen here. IF MANAGEMENT HEARD THIS, IT IS THEIR DUTY AS MANAGERS TO DEAL WITH IT AS SUCH. It doesnt matter if it was 1 individual or 100. IT SHOULDNT HAVE HAPPENED AND OVER A PROLONGED PERIOD. The fact that the company is "offering me my job back, and they cannot understand why I wouldn't take it" shows they know little about what its like to be in an environment and be discriminated against almost on a daily basis. It's not a reasonable offer. Asking someone who has been assaulted in a house to go back and live there if they're homeless so they 'can have a roof over their head,' oh and they would get some money back to help them and its a 'reasonable offer' would be absurd. Or to tell an abused person that they should have reported abuse to the police when it happened, if you didnt its on you. I had just started this job, it was my first job in about a year, I have dependants. They could have EASILY managed me out of the company. I expected MY MANAGER who was aware to stick up for me. When he didnt and things became worse I left.0 -
I think you are confusing "morally right" with "within the law."
They are not the same thing. If you expect a court to enforce moral justice, you are going to be very disappointed.2021 GC £1365.71/ £24000 -
What I dont think you all are understanding, is that this happened in an open environment. - nope got that. But it's not relevant. So other colleagues had heard, management had heard and did nothing about it. - you didn't ask them to discrimination of the nature with I endured is GROSS MISCONDUCT - probably; but not relevant as you hadn't complained , but this did NOT happen here. IF MANAGEMENT HEARD THIS, IT IS THEIR DUTY AS MANAGERS TO DEAL WITH IT AS SUCH. - not necessarily, you gave two examples, which are clearly both very unpleasant, but how is a manger to know where you have drawn the line with this particular colleague? It doesnt matter if it was 1 individual or 100. IT SHOULDNT HAVE HAPPENED AND OVER A PROLONGED PERIOD. - You werent there long enough for it to be a prolonged period The fact that the company is "offering me my job back, and they cannot understand why I wouldn't take it" shows they know little about what its like to be in an environment and be discriminated against almost on a daily basis. - Or it shows that you need to deal with things in a more productive light. There was an issue, it was resolved. It's not a reasonable offer. Asking someone who has been assaulted in a house to go back and live there if they're homeless so they 'can have a roof over their head,' oh and they would get some money back to help them and its a 'reasonable offer' would be absurd. - what on earth are you talking about? People don't get a new house if they're assaulted... Or to tell an abused person that they should have reported abuse to the police when it happened - yes they should have. Aside from anything else, some offences are limited by statute to 6 months. , if you didnt its on you. I had just started this job, it was my first job in about a year, I have dependants. - then perhaps you should put them before your pride? They could have EASILY managed me out of the company. I expected MY MANAGER who was aware to stick up for me. When he didnt and things became worse I left.
This was a fixed term contract that was due to expire 5 months later anyway. The figures of £9-36k are figures from cases where people have lost a lot more than 5 months wages.
You seem to think that you have no responsibility in this; but you do. That is to follow procedure and to report things.0 -
What I dont think you all are understanding, is that this happened in an open environment. So other colleagues had heard, management had heard and did nothing about it. discrimination of the nature with I endured is GROSS MISCONDUCT, but this did NOT happen here. IF MANAGEMENT HEARD THIS, IT IS THEIR DUTY AS MANAGERS TO DEAL WITH IT AS SUCH. It doesnt matter if it was 1 individual or 100. IT SHOULDNT HAVE HAPPENED AND OVER A PROLONGED PERIOD. The fact that the company is "offering me my job back, and they cannot understand why I wouldn't take it" shows they know little about what its like to be in an environment and be discriminated against almost on a daily basis. It's not a reasonable offer. Asking someone who has been assaulted in a house to go back and live there if they're homeless so they 'can have a roof over their head,' oh and they would get some money back to help them and its a 'reasonable offer' would be absurd. Or to tell an abused person that they should have reported abuse to the police when it happened, if you didnt its on you. I had just started this job, it was my first job in about a year, I have dependants. They could have EASILY managed me out of the company. I expected MY MANAGER who was aware to stick up for me. When he didnt and things became worse I left.
Don't shout!
Obviously I deplore the conduct you describe, as I'm sure does everybody who has responded.
However you asked for opinions about the likely value of your claim. I have to say I agree with the responses above that a tribunal is likely to think the firm have made a legally fair offer.
Sorry, I know that is not what you want to hear but there is little point in saying what we do not believe to be true.0
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