Ctax, How much am I liable to pay back?

himalayasalt

There were two adults here when I moved in already, for a total of three, and continued for about 6 months after that. I see it as a continuation of a fraud that I ended up being a part of once moving in. Should have been full ctax paid before I came.

I'm human and of course want him to suffer a bit since it's me who will end up with less money and I don't have a lot of it. I think it would be hard for the council to prosecute him as we are talking about an eight-year period with multiple people here (although he was always resident during that time) and imagine tracking down all those people when none of them had official tenancy agreement and none were paying utilities? They're ghosts. Just opening up a deceased persons bank records would be a bureaucratic nightmare.

He will be evicted.. I have to research that. There is no tenancy agreement in place. He has been paying me rent since I got title deed. The rent is almost nothing so won't affect me too much.. we're talking 250 a month including utilities (rooms in this area go for 500 inc bills) but **** rent could have been so much higher so that I could have properly paid the ctax in my name. It would never be so low if I knew he gets a refund from the council and I have to pay it all from my bank account. Essentially he's defrauded me too, but legally it seems I have no feet to stand on because an arrangement between us can't outweigh that of the law.

Maybe he is deemed a lodger since he rents one room and so has no rights... I've no idea atm. Defrauding the estate, the council and him being a user of class A drugs (every cent of this refund from the council to him will be spent by him on the white stuff). I'd shoot for the shortest time to legally give him to pack up as possible and that might give me a little schadenfreude.

As for a fine, from what I can find online it is to prevent prosecution. If the council is in a bad mood they could easily prosecute me; ignorance of the law isn't a legal defence.

CIS

As for a fine, from what I can find online it is to prevent prosecution. If the council is in a bad mood they could easily prosecute me; ignorance of the law isn't a legal defence.

Unless a person was prosecuted and convicted then there is no fine for claiming an incorrect council tax discount - there is a penalty which can be issued by the council without conviction but this minimal. The council cannot fine anyone, a fine is the preserve of the court.


I'm not sure where you're getting a £1000 fine from as that would not be applicable - there is a £1000 fine (maximum) if convicted of failing to supply information on a regulation 36 notice but that's not applicable here. A conviction for wrongly claiming a discount would be undertaken under the s2 or s3 of the Fraud Act 2006 - for the sort of value involved the sentencing guidelines go up to 36 weeks imprisonment and/or an unlimited fine. It is however very rare councils go for charging, in most cases they just withdraw the discount and take the standard enforcement action to recover it.


For council tax purposes the situation for Jul 16 - 17 can be summarised to a simple answer;

If the other person had no tenancy or licence agreement then he was a resident for the purposes of council tax. If you moved in and you did not have a tenancy or licence agreement either then you are also a resident for the purposes of council tax. If you were both only residents then you would be jointly liable for the period and jointly responsible for any discounts.

The same principal applies if you were both resident licensees or tenants as you would again both have the same interest in the property and the council tax charge.

Is the council likely to insist upon refunding him? That also means I've been cheated out of rent since his rent is low to account for ctax (might not be a legal argument but how many people are aware of this?).

Since 2017 the council tax charge should be in your name as the resident owner - if he has incorrectly paid council tax then he is entitled to a refund. It should be in your sole name, with no discount.

himalayasalt

If the other person had no tenancy or licence agreement then he was a resident for the purposes of council tax. If you moved in and you did not have a tenancy or licence agreement either then you are also a resident for the purposes of council tax. If you were both only residents then you would be jointly liable for the period and jointly responsible for any discounts.

Thanks for your reply... i think it's all clear now. Just one last thing, it wouldn't be my job to provide a tenancy agreement to the council for that time period for the tenant.. nout to do with me. There was certainly a verbal tenancy agreement between him and the owner. I wonder if that is enough for the council? But now only one party can attest to that. Obviously if all he had to do was tell the council about this verbal agreement he would lie to save himself the 500 quid or whatever it is.

Oh, regarding water and water waste, I take it that will be resolved in the same way as the ctax? It's un-metered here.

Seem's his stay here will have been very cheap indeed: no rent for a year, 3 years of not paying any utilities and now will have enjoyed the benefits of artificially low rent with a soon-to-be refund from the council for a tad over 2 grand. Wonderful, but the not having the ctax in my name was my error so.. expensive lesson learnt. I wonder... if he's not a tenant in the council's eyes for tax purposes, does that mean I can kick him onto the street tomorrow.. he is after all just a 'resident'.

A bit of schadenfreude would be nice. I would ask the estate lawyer to start some kind of legal action against him to get the utilities back, it'll be about 3600 quid stolen in total, but again.. without a tenancy agreement in writing and the other party not around it's impossible to prove. Mortally what he did is reprehensible but after having a free ride here for so long, I think he's in for a shock when his new room is 500 inc bills, no smoking, in a worse location in a smaller room yada yada.

Thanks to everyone who contributed for helping to clear up the confusion

CIS

Oh, regarding water and water waste, I take it that will be refunded too and I pay back 25% of the first period too? It's listed on the same invoice below council tax.

I take it you're in Scotland.

himalayasalt

Glasgow

CIS

s6 (as per post #4) doesn't apply then but s75 applies for Scotland, gives the same overall result though.

himalayasalt

oh very last Q... since this guy was paying with a 25% discount for single person, I know i'll be paying the council full tax from late 2017 until present day... but when they refund him, please tell me they don't refund him 100%, but 75%.. i.e what he actually paid them. And the odds of either of us being convicted over this are slim? That's a lot of stress and worry right there. It also says unlimited fine.