Is it fraud?

ironmanjason

From what I remember when we set up a Ltd company for my wife in Jan 17 but started operating (meaning income to the company) mid feb about 3 1/2 weeks later.. that FY she got little more in the basic salary as the salary was pro-rated from the date the company was registered.

dunstonh

Payroll is something that is normally charged extra for on an ongoing basis by accountants. Indeed, some accountants have been bought not for their clients under accountancy but the payroll services they run. Payroll introduces a number of requirements beyond just supplying info. There is auto-enrolment registration for example.

Because of PAYE, there is a format and method to the way things are done. If you recreated 5 payslips backdated then you are committing fraud. Backdating, as I mentioned before, would normally be handled with the next available payment run covering the amount as a single payment and the following months then being the norm.

The payment to HMRC in the month the payment is made, requires a specific code to be added after the reference to indicate which month in the cycle it is referring to. So, if the payslip says a certain amount of tax is due, it should be paid that month with a code indicating the month in the cycle.

As mentioned higher up, beneficial owners are not asked for payslips by a lender. So, either the borrower is relying on man-down-the-pub garbage advice or they are trying to hide the fact they are beneficial owners and make out they are employees (aka mortgage fraud).

Is the salary the person is asking you to provide mock payslips on above the £702pm figure?

antrobus

Jellybeans1618 wrote: »

...

Firstly is this fraud?

Yes.

Jellybeans1618 wrote: »

...
Would I get into trouble for doing it

Yes. The AAT would exclude you from membership. The ACCA would so the same.

NewBuild72

Hi,

Please don’t think I’m being rude here, but these are basic things you should be aware off.

You have recently registered the company with HMRC for a PAYE reference, so which tax office / PAYE ref would you be putting on the backdated payslips?

Was the company registered and incorporated after the date of these payslips?

As already stated back dated adjustments are added to the current pay period.

Can you demonstrate the payments leaving the company account for the salary and payments to HMRC for NI & PAYE owed?

As for VAT - you will receive a fine for a late return, and if you do this often they will want to come and visit. When I worked at HMRC we audited a company on a once in seven year basis unless activity suggested a visit beforehand. Late returns are often an indication that company is holding off a payment due to HMRC. When it’s a return in the company’s favour these returns are usually submitted quickly!

I wouldn’t expect any of my AAT clerks to take on this kind of role easily, they wouldn’t have the exposure to all the nuisances or VAT regulation notices.

If you think this is tricky, wait until you have to complete the CT600 and any self-assessment returns you may be asked to do.

Also, if you are influencing the decisions of the directors you may wish to familiarise yourself with the definition of Shadow Director. You could still be called into account, don’t think if it all goes wrong it’s just on the shoulders of the registered directors of the company, especially a small one.

Just trying to be helpful!

Edi81

If you’re studying for ACCA then you need to get familiar with the ethics section.

You could get thrown out of the association for this type of thing!

minimike2

At least this was a little more interesting than most of the threads we get about fraud. Bear in mind that despite the OP should have known already, at least they have bothered to think twice about it and go away to find out....

Most of the fraud threads we get are people who are quite happy to lie on their mortgage application and come on here hoping to find some way to justify it and then cry when we tell them they shouldn't be doing it. At least it appears this time it will result in the right outcome...

Thrugelmir

Jellybeans1618 wrote: »

I have the AAT qualification and i'm studying towards chartered status with the ACCA.

Then you need to act in a totally professional manner.

Firstly is this fraud? Would I get into trouble for doing it or would the company director of the person wanting the payslips get into trouble?

Yes. Loss of reputation at the very minimum.

Fraud = wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

Can I ask you another question; this has nothing to do with me, but can you get in trouble for not submitting VAT returns? In trouble more than the penalties that they have paid?

Expect a visit from HMRC within a short time frame. They'll want to know where the companies money has gone. At the very least submit the return on time even if payment cannot be made. Likewise speak to the HMRC however difficult it maybe. Will be good training towards your qualifications.