Running business together with a partner

Comms69

kleshnia wrote: »

You're self employed - there is no fair ( I mean there's very little 'fair' anyway) you aren't entitled to minimum wages, holiday, pension etc.


Starting your own ltd company wouldn't change that.


Showcasing would depend on what your agreement with the client was.

is it ok that i am asked to teach others in the company to do something i've taught myself? what if after teaching them the company can say goodbye to me and what i wil;l be left with? it's quite a niche business..i would have to start from the beginning and won't be able to use example of my own work i have done for the company

Yes that is fine. This is a totally voluntary arrangement. You can say no. They can seek the services of another designer.

gettingtheresometime

kleshnia wrote: »

Hi, I need advice please (i hope that's the right thread)..my fiance has started business a while ago..a couple of years ago i have joined in to run a different side of the business..my partner pays for everything (rent, materials etc.)..i work on a self-employed basis and we share a profit from the jobs i do (from my side of the business)..i have taught myself how to do everything (not my fiance)..apart from the main business i also do website, social media, answer emails, site visits.
i have a dilemma here as nothing is on the paper..and i don't know if i should ask him to put me on the paper, open up my own limited company or am i being ungrateful? should we just carry on how we are? my partner thinks also i should contribute towards the rent...would that be fair?
we also have a few people who work we me and who i train to the stuff i do...i and i feel that if anything will happen i will be replaceable and left with nothing.. it probably sounds terrible...but please give me advice on that would be best for both of us??

The way I see your position is yes if you train these people then theoretically your fianc! could say thanks very much kleshnia but I've decided I don't love you anymore and we need to part.


Obviously then you've effectively got a competitor as well.


How integrated are the two sides of the business - could one survive without the other? If the answer is yes then perhaps you do need to formalise the arrangement (you charge your fianc!'s business for your artwork/time you spend on training - though I guess he'd be within his rights to charge you rent by the same token). If not, then you need to look at becoming one company.


Tbh it sounds as if neither of you know what you want out of the setup.

kleshnia

The way I see your position is yes if you train these people then theoretically your fianc! could say thanks very much kleshnia but I've decided I don't love you anymore and we need to part.


Obviously then you've effectively got a competitor as well.


How integrated are the two sides of the business - could one survive without the other? If the answer is yes then perhaps you do need to formalise the arrangement (you charge your fianc!'s business for your artwork/time you spend on training - though I guess he'd be within his rights to charge you rent by the same token). If not, then you need to look at becoming one company.


Tbh it sounds as if neither of you know what you want out of the setup.

i think he wants just people to make loads and loads of pieces to upload on the website for sale etc.
everyone in the company is self-employed and i am the one at the moment who has got the most knowledge of making them

i have suggested to him that we formalise this agreement somehow, or maybe i should become a limited company etc, but he didn't like it..he thinks it will make his company look less profitable..

i'm just not sure what to do here because he pays for everything, but i'm not happy to work on a daily rate which is not much different to others with hardly any security..but also i don't think becoming competitors will do us any good as a couple.

kleshnia

also, am i allowed to go and find my own clients doing the same thing..or would it be seen as a betrayal?

Kynthia

Using words like betrayal show how blurred the relationship and the business are.

Do you want this to be a separate business where you create the pieces, sell them, rent space and employ whatever staff are needed?

Do you want to be self-employed creating these pieces and selling them to your partner's business? If so there is no advantage to you in teaching your customer's staff to do what you do and is a big risk for you.

Do you want to be an employee of your partner's business? In which case I don't think the designs will belong to you and he can tell you to train your colleagues.

Are you wanting to be a partner in the business which does both activities? This would need to be formalised and you wpuld definitely need advice as I know little about this and the risks.

Don't let being in a relationship mean you put yourself in financial risk. Someone who loves you shouldn't let you or encourage you to do that. I'd suggest thinking about what you want and researching the options, then getting legal advice if necessary.ensure there are proper agreements, paperwork and invoices along with the tax for whichever you choosebeing properly dealt with.

Comms69

kleshnia wrote: »

The way I see your position is yes if you train these people then theoretically your fianc! could say thanks very much kleshnia but I've decided I don't love you anymore and we need to part.


Obviously then you've effectively got a competitor as well.


How integrated are the two sides of the business - could one survive without the other? If the answer is yes then perhaps you do need to formalise the arrangement (you charge your fianc!'s business for your artwork/time you spend on training - though I guess he'd be within his rights to charge you rent by the same token). If not, then you need to look at becoming one company.


Tbh it sounds as if neither of you know what you want out of the setup.

i think he wants just people to make loads and loads of pieces to upload on the website for sale etc.
everyone in the company is self-employed - that's not likely. The company will probably be sued shortly by one of the employees. and i am the one at the moment who has got the most knowledge of making them

i have suggested to him that we formalise this agreement somehow, or maybe i should become a limited company etc, but he didn't like it..he thinks it will make his company look less profitable..

i'm just not sure what to do here because he pays for everything, but i'm not happy to work on a daily rate which is not much different to others with hardly any security..but also i don't think becoming competitors will do us any good as a couple.

He doesn't pay for anything. The company does. None of you seem to grasp very basic principles of business.

Manxman_in_exile

Are you certain you and your colleagues are all "self-employed"?


You perhaps ought to check the criteria for self-employment on the HMRC website and compare those to your situation. ('m not sure where the criteria are, but I'm sure someone can post a link).


Do you invoice the company for your work (you say you are "paid" a daily rate) and what us the method of payment?


How is your tax and NI accounted for? by you or the limited company?

System

kleshnia wrote: »

i do invoice the company but i am on daily rate...is it fair?

You negotiated the rate you were going to charge your customer, your partner's business, so that's down to you to decide if it is or not.

or should i be charging for a project etc.? am i allowed to showcase my designs that i made for the company somewhere else?

That is a business decision entirely for you to decide and negotiate with your customer. It depends entirely on what you put down in your terms of business you agreed with your customer.

Annisele

Deciding whether or not somebody is self-employed is very complex, but HMRC publishes a brief guide here. (I think that's the list Manxman meant, but there are others).

Someone is probably self-employed and shouldn’t be paid through PAYE if most of the following are true:

• they’re in business for themselves, are responsible for the success or failure of their business and can make a loss or a profit
• they can decide what work they do and when, where or how to do it
• they can hire someone else to do the work
• they’re responsible for fixing any unsatisfactory work in their own time
• their employer agrees a fixed price for their work - it doesn’t depend on how long the job takes to finish
• they use their own money to buy business assets, cover running costs, and provide tools and equipment for their work
• they can work for more than one client

From what you've posted, I'm not sure how much of that applies to you.
It doesn't sound like it's possible for you to make a loss. You say your partner pays for all materials, so presumably if whatever you make doesn't sell then he eats the cost of that? And he just pays you regardless?
It also sounds as though you don't use your own money for any business assets or running costs.
I'm leaning towards you *maybe* being his employee. But it's really unclear!