Family member won't let us help

dori2o

My elderly Nan has been showing signs of schizophrenia, and has been for a few months.

However, she refuses to let anyone call or take her to the Doctor's

As a family we have spoken to the Doctor's, police and social services, but they have said that whilst she is still able to care for herself they cannot force her to do anything.

She is having hallucinations and hearing voices.

She is adamant that there are people living in her loft and that every night there are people ferrying drugs in and out of the empty property next door.

She's convinced that the empty property is being used by squatters at night who have some sort of heavy machinery that is making their drugs. They are also stealing her electric and water from her house and are being assisted by the man living in the loft.

Recently we've been informed by a neighbour that she has been seen outside waving a walking stick around.

When we questioned her about it she told us very graphically how she fought of these 'druggies' and one had to call an ambulance to be taken away. (We've found out from the ambulance service via the police that this incident didn't happen).

She also says that these druggies break into her conservatory at night and antagonise her.

We've offered to put surveillance cameras up outside but she 'doesnt want the mess'. I even said I would set up a wireless system which would record directly to a hard drive via her tablet.

She calls the police several times a week about these squatters/druggies/the man living in the loft.

They've attended the property several times and spoken to her, they also speak to my parents after every call out, but they insist there is nothing else they can do.

We've tried to sit her down and tell her that there is a problem and what she is seeing and hearing is not happening. We've told her we are worried about her because she is seeing and hearing things that are not true. (we try to avoid saying it's 'all in her head') but she just retaliates saying there is nothing wrong with her. That everyone is out to get her. That we are conspiring with the druggies and just want her gone so we can have her money.

Everyone is in it together, conspiring against her. Even the police officer who went into the empty property abd her loft to confirm nobody was there. She says she heard him talking to the man and promising him that he would tell the 'old woman' that nobody was there.

We called the Doctor out to her house but she refused him entry. He said that whilst she is still managing with daily tasks she's vulnerable but not a danger to herself or others.

We've been told that if we want to get her help it will have to be through private healthcare, which we/she simply don't have the money for.

She's so convinced that the 'druggies' are taking her electric that she switched it off at the mains. This has led to frozen food defrosting, losing telephone contact, and the boiler not working properly.

We've just asked the police for a record of all calls, visits and actions taken so that we can take it to the GP again in the hope someone will help us.

We simply don't know where to turn to next.

Does anyone have any advice how to get the health service, social services, anyone to help us?

Would it be possible to obtain power of attorney on mental capacity/capability grounds?

I'm not looking for specific medical advice, just suggestions for how we move forward.

Many Thanks

elsien

You can't get a power of attorney without her consent.
Will she a GP - it could be something as simple as an infection. UTIs are notorious for making people hallucinate.
If this can be ruled out, you (or rather her nearest relative, which is a specific role under the mental health act, you would need to work out who that is) have the power to request a mental health assessment. If the local authority say no, they have to give you the reasons in writing.
I don't have time to look for links but there's probably something on the mind or rethink websites.

Eta - if in public the police also have some powers which at the moment they are choosing not to use, possibly because they don't consider it serious enough

dori2o

elsien wrote: »

You can't get a power of attorney without her consent.
Will she a GP - it could be something as simple as an infection. UTIs are notorious for making people hallucinate.
If this can be ruled out, you (or rather her nearest relative, which is a specific role under the mental health act, you would need to work out who that is) have the power to request a mental health assessment. If the local authority say no, they have to give you the reasons in writing.
I don't have time to look for links but there's probably something on the mind or rethink websites.

Thanks.

I've just seen some information on the Mind and Rethink websites.

I'll have a look and see what they suggest.

I was wondering if anyone else had a similar experience of being refused assistance etc?

Miró

Hi, I had a similar situation with my ex-husband a few years ago. I spoke to our GP who then did a home visit to assess the situation. This resulted in him arranging for a psychiatric consultant to visit us at home to do a mental health assessment. (Both times I made sure I was at home otherwise I'm sure my ex would not have let either of them in). It was decided that my ex urgently needed to be hospitalised and treated both for his mental health problems and also my safety. The consultant then arranged for a couple of mental health social workers to call to try and persuade my ex to accompany them to hospital 'just for a check up' (again I made sure I was in). Fortunately this worked and he was admitted otherwise he would have had to be removed to hospital and held forcibly under a 'section'. The whole process took about four days from me speaking to the GP to admission to a psychiatric hospital if I remember correctly.

So sorry to hear of your difficulties....just thought I would post to say how things worked out for us....such a distressing time.

PasturesNew

Can you set up a secret camera and capture/record her unusual behaviours? Your say so means nothing to these people who run the system.... the system has no place for "say so".... if you can sneak in a hidden cam or two and save footage you can show that she's a shilling short on occasions and that gives "the system" something to work on as they're not relying on your "say so"

dori2o

PasturesNew wrote: »

Can you set up a secret camera and capture/record her unusual behaviours? Your say so means nothing to these people who run the system.... the system has no place for "say so".... if you can sneak in a hidden cam or two and save footage you can show that she's a shilling short on occasions and that gives "the system" something to work on as they're not relying on your "say so"

That is what we are thinking of doing, but we are unsure of the legal standing ovation covertly recording someone in and around their own home.

The neighbour across the road has kindly offered to provide a witness statement, and if able to will attempt to record video the next time my Nan is fighting off these 'druggies' with my Grandad old walking stick.

We were hoping she would let us install the wireless cameras outside, just so that we can show her that there is nothing happening when she's telling her version of events.

Having read a little bit about it, I know that these visions, hallucinations, delusions, voices etc to her are very real.

To her this is actually happening. These people are very real and so are the voices.

But it's also happening with physical objects. Last week she got a gas/electric bill, but she told us it was a letter telling her that she was using far too much electricity, and unless she stopped using so much they were going to cut it off.

My Aunt actually had her read out the letter, and she still saw it as a threat to cut off the supply. She believes she owes thousands of pounds in electric bills, but she's actually in credit.

She blames this on those 'druggies' stealing her electric and using too much.

Everything revolves around those 'druggies' and what they are doing.

She believes most of the street are 'in on it'.

Thanks for the advice so far.

StaffieTerrier

As mentioned above, can you arrange for a GP to do a home assessment but you might have to be there to ensure she allows access. There could any one of a number of things causing it, including UTIs, mental health problems, dementia, and the list goes on.

I had to stage an intervention with my Mom and take her to the GP. She's been diagnosed with dementia. Luckily it's still relatively early on so I've managed to get power of attorney in place while she still has capacity.

I also spoke to my Mom's local social services adult department who came carried out an assessment and spoke to us about help available. AgeUK are also really helpful.

Toothsmith

dori2o wrote: »

My elderly Nan has been showing signs of schizophrenia, and has been for a few months.

What you're describing is more likely to be dementia in one of her age.

I'm sure the Dr will have realised this - but it just strikes me that if you're askinging for help with schizophrenia, you might be getting directed to the wrong places for her.

If you have an elderly relation with signs of Alzheimer's - then you might find help a bit easier.

Fortunately, I've not had any experience of having to deal with this yet - so I'm not sure how to go about it. It is a warning, though, to get a Lasting power of attorney set up for your relatives way before you are likely to need it, as things can be very difficult if such a thing is not set up, or has to be sorted after full faculties have been lost.

I set up one for my sons when I had to make a new will a year ago. If you have elderly relatives without one - have the conversation with them NOW. And get one set up for your relatives too!

dori2o

Toothsmith wrote: »

What you're describing is more likely to be dementia in one of her age.

I'm sure the Dr will have realised this - but it just strikes me that if you're askinging for help with schizophrenia, you might be getting directed to the wrong places for her.

If you have an elderly relation with signs of Alzheimer's - then you might find help a bit easier.

Fortunately, I've not had any experience of having to deal with this yet - so I'm not sure how to go about it. It is a warning, though, to get a Lasting power of attorney set up for your relatives way before you are likely to need it, as things can be very difficult if such a thing is not set up, or has to be sorted after full faculties have been lost.

I set up one for my sons when I had to make a new will a year ago. If you have elderly relatives without one - have the conversation with them NOW. And get one set up for your relatives too!

It was a Dr who suggested Schizophrenia based on the Hallucinations, Voices, Delusions, etc. Where the patient is unable to recognise reality from the fiction of their own thoughts and hallucinations.

I've recently discovered myself that despitemany people believe (including me until recently) schizophrenia doesn't manifest as violent outbursts unless the individual is under the influence of drink/drugs.

Her memory is fine. She can remember exactly what she has done or said now and years ago, she recognises faces and people, she has no difficulty remembering lists, doing maths, etc. Her mobility is fine as is her daily routines erc

He memory is far better than mine, and certainly better than my Mum's who does have early onset dementia.

She remembers the hallucinations and voices, the conversations with the man in the loft word for word.

We are having a family meeting later to discuss next steps. I think we should phone social servuc s and get them there, then get whatever assessments that are needed done. If she has to be sectioned then that's what needs to be done.

Toothsmith

Oh - fair enough then. Best wishes for it. It's a difficult time.

pelirocco

I hope she has been checked for a urinary tract infection first , this can cause all sorts of mental confusion in the elderly