Climate catastrophe

Apodemus

cuddlymarm wrote: »

I think the general point is that we all need to start being more thoughtful with our planet. Eventually the oil, coal and gas is going to run out so we need to start dealing with that problem now. Also food, eating more veg based meals is good for you and the environment so should be encouraged.
As with food shipped miles, if we eat locally and seasonally it cuts down on the effects of the transport, keeps farmers here in work, and quite frankly fruit and salad flown thousands of miles doesn’t taste as good as that grown at the correct time of year (here) and exotic fruits used to be a treat but now are expected. We have become silly and spoilt expecting what we fancy to be on the supermarket shelves. Then throwing loads of it away when we don’t eat it in time.
And this is only the tip of the iceberg
Plastic waste, poor public transport, throw away fashion. I could go on but I won’t for now.
Cuddles

Quite agree! But for me one of the cheapest, most local, foods at this time of year is hill-shot venison, with local potatoes. My point is that people have to read beyond the sensationalist headlines or blanket statements and apply the fundamentals to their own local situation.

cuddlymarm

It will be different for different people. I’m lucky living not far from my local shops. It’s a 20 min walk to work but in the past OH commuted 1 and a half hours each way. But we live in a flat so no garden, laundry drying area or place to charge an electric car if we could afford one.
We look out of our window at the largest wind farm in Europe. I know some people hate them but I think the turbines are lovely and I would rather have those than oil rigs.
We need to push the government to build more eco friendly houses. If they are built ready with solar panels and sufficient insulation it’s saves people having to do it later. We live in an area with lots of Victorian houses, draughty and hard to heat. I’m not saying it’s the governments job to do everything but our governments are short sighted because they are probably only going to be in power for 10 years at a time so why bother. This needs to be across party issue which isn’t allowed to be used for political gain. I haven’t got grandchildren (yet but hope to have some) but we are getting to the stage where our neglect might affect us, but will affect our kids and grandkids.
OK guys I’ll get off my soapbox now
Cuddles

Doom_and_Gloom

NigeWick wrote: »

As to saving the planet, we need to use permaculture techniques if we want a regenerative food system. Animals are part of that if they are naturally fed, rather than factory farmed as most are now. Looking after feed animals properly will actually help reduce carbon levels, and, be so expensive as to bring down its consumption.

Vegan permaculture is more than possible, you can use plants in fallow lands that restore nitrogen levels. Growing food for animals no matter is a waste of resources; food, water, the gasses the animal itself makes etc. Any secondary farmed source of food is wasteful of many resources. Primary foods are less wasteful and it isn't a secret that they also require less resources to begin with.
If people want to eat animals then wild is the least damaging all around.
It's noted to be more beneficial for the environment to go vegan than to give up your car in most cases.

So I don't eat wasteful animal products at all.
I do eat quinoa for an example but I bought British.
I drink soya milk, usually I make my own. 1L of carton vs 1kg of soya beans that can make 12.5L. That is much less carbon waste.
Use a thermos for hot water and coffe and use through the day rather than constant boiling of kettle.
Bulk cook and freeze so less waste, or eat the same kinds of things a few days in a row.
No clothes drier, we have a clothes horse that has a heater element that we use when needed in winter and a dehumidifier. Both are low energy and help keep condition of the flat we rent so no condensation issues.
We don't own a car, public transport in the way of bus and trains.
We've been abroad together twice in 12 years as a couple, one by train to France (day trip) and once to Japan by direct flight.

Basically we need to look at things as a whole. We should certainly be encouraging local produce over imported produce.
Hopefully things like the Eden project can be implemented on a wider scale. Vertical growing is something that should be thought about more. Also growing with hydroponics means lack of soil isn't an issue and goes well with vertical growing. We may need to use many different types of growing obtain the goal.

zeupater

Doom_and_Gloom wrote: »

... We've been abroad together twice in 12 years as a couple, one by train to France (day trip) and once to Japan by direct flight ...

Hi

The single flight itself likely resulted in more CO2 emissions than eating well over 1lb of red meat each per week for the whole 12years ... worse than that, the CO2 emissions would be in the high atmosphere where it's not readily available to be re-absorbed into the carbon cycle (at ground-level) and the source of the CO2 is fossil hydrocarbon combustion (as opposed to short carbon cycle agriculture/animal husbandry) so the long-term impact would be far more damaging than directly comparing on an over-simplified mass basis ...

It's highly likely that the single flight you mention would have had an overall ecological impact greater than all of the meat that an average omnivore would consume in their entire lifetime ....

The argument used on meat CO2 comparisons is very similar to that recently seen when comparing the short cycle (decades) carbon released by biomass combustion with the long-cycle (geographical period) of consuming gas or coal ... biomass combustion can be balanced & sustainable, fossil fuel combustion simply returns carbon fossilised millions of years ago to the atmosphere, therefore cannot be sustainable ...

We eat meat and will continue to do so because we like to do so. There's an accepted argument that meat-production is an inefficient use of available land in terms of food calories/acre if looked at on a pure area basis & that's reflected in us eating considerably less than we used to some years ago ... however, there's normally little consideration of the relative land quality - It'd certainly be interesting to see the ecological outcome of someone attempting to grow crops on some of the land around here which is currently used for animal husbandry!

HTH
Z

Apodemus

...and these soya beans... The world’s second biggest exporter of soy is Brazil and I’m afraid the beans are not growing wild in the rain-forest and hand-picked by wandering bands of happy bean-collectors!

EDIT: Sorry! Just checked, and Brazil is now number 1, with 44% of world exports.

Nick_C

As is usually the case, everyone is concentrating on things that will simply enable even more people to infest our overcrowded planet.

The biggest problem is overpopulation. We are all consuming natural resources and emitting CO2 and CH4.

If you really care about the planet and the other poor creatures trying to share it with us, limit yourselves to one child per couple.

TonyMMM

Like my "millennial" relative who told me the other day she has gone vegan to save the planet but then admitted she has flown abroad on long haul holidays & short breaks more than 20 times in the past 3 or 4 years.

The sad reality is that the vast majority of people are not willing or able to make the huge changes that would have a real effect because to do so would significantly lower their living standards, and no politicians are going to force those changes either in a single country whilst others don't.

michaels

Are those clever food scientists already growing meat protein in the lab so soon meat will have no more co2/methane impact than quorn.

There is lots of talk about food miles, international travel and walking the last mile but does anyone know the relative impacts? Does veganism plus 1 longhaul = omnivore plus UK hols? How about imported veg vs no short car trips?

hollie.weimeraner

Nick_C wrote: »

As is usually the case, everyone is concentrating on things that will simply enable even more people to infest our overcrowded planet.

I watched Dan Browns Inferno last night:rotfl:

Unfortunately as population increases the problem gets worse.

Doom_and_Gloom

Around 6% of soya beans are grown for human consumption. The majority goes to animal feed around the world so again a minor point against vegans that really people who consume a wasteful food source contribute to more. Soya is used in other products that you wouldn't think it to be in either.
The beans I bought were in bulk, 5kg, organic from China. Bulk to reduce the impact and China to avoid Brazil. I'm sure it could be better, soya can be grown in the UK but finding a place to buy it seems to be impossible.
The 5kg of beans replaces 62.5 1 liter cartons. How can you argue that one? Cow milk, and other carton milk, is transported in its heavy form. There are resources to grow (not just feed and water), produce, package, transport to supermarket/provider then taken to the purchasers home and to add insult to injury milk products are one of the most wasted products by households.
I make what I need when I need it and do not waste it.

As I said whole picture.
Yes the flying was a negative and I have looked into a company to plant trees or some other kind of help to combat the carbon from that trip for my husband and I. Not the best however better than nothing.

The main of my life is very basic.
Example, rather than buy a cushion recently I cut up old clothing and made it into stuffing.

Refuse
Reduce
Reuse
Recycle
Repurpose
Rot

Laughing, picking apart etc people that actually try is just stupid. We are human and trying is better then doing nothing at all.
I'll carry on doing what I do to help. Being vegan has been scientifically proven to help as secondary forms of food are extremely wasteful.