Death before taking pension

CEON44

Silvertabby wrote: »

Is it these people?

D.E PENSION TRUSTEE UK LIMITED
HORIZON HONEY LANE
HURLEY
MAIDENHEAD
BERKSHIRE
SL6 6RJ

If so, then it looks like they have taken over as trustees of the scheme, rather than administrators. That can complicate things somewhat. I would write to them to ask for details of what would happen to your wife's funds should she die before/after retirement - but you may get a wishy washy reply back along the lines of 'will be considered by the trustees at the time' (which means it depends on how much money they have to play with).

You could also ask for a transfer valuation at the same time.....

That would appear to be them. Although the name seems slightly different. When you say they are trustees rather than administrators what does this mean? Is that something to be concerned about? My wife got an update last year. They sent out a glossy booklet giving details of how much pot was worth to transfer and various options. My wife decided to leave hers until 2020 but her sister at that point decided to move hers private due to the death issue, as advised by her Financial Advisor. I am generally happy to leave it where it is for 18 months but the thought of losing it all in the event of my wifes death is a concern. I will try to hunt out some documentation or call them

Silvertabby

CEON44 wrote: »

That would appear to be them. Although the name seems slightly different. When you say they are trustees rather than administrators what does this mean? Is that something to be concerned about? My wife got an update last year. They sent out a glossy booklet giving details of how much pot was worth to transfer and various options. My wife decided to leave hers until 2020 but her sister at that point decided to move hers private due to the death issue, as advised by her Financial Advisor. I am generally happy to leave it where it is for 18 months but the thought of losing it all in the event of my wifes death is a concern. I will try to hunt out some documentation or call them

Trustees if they have taken over the assets (and liabilities) of a pension scheme, usually because the scheme is no longer current. May be best to call them for an answer first - then ask for written confirmation.

I'm surprised that the glossy booklet made no mention of the 'on death' options - which makes me really think that any payments would be at 'the trustee's discretion'.

Dox

Silvertabby wrote: »

I'm surprised that the glossy booklet made no mention of the 'on death' options - which makes me really think that any payments would be at 'the trustee's discretion'.

...and if this is a closed scheme, hard to see why the Trustee would use their discretion to pay something they didn't have to pay.

OP, get your wife to write to the scheme and ask for a copy of the Trust Deed & Rules. This is something called a 'disclosure document' so she is entitled to copy. Say that a soft copy is acceptable and give her e-mail address.

If you and she can't find anything in the Trust Deed & Rules to tell you about spouse's benefits, you can then forward to the Pensions Advisory Service who will be happy to have a look for you (hence getting a soft copy to keep life simple): https://www.pensionsadvisoryservice.org.uk/ask-us

The Trust Deed & Rules is the ONLY definitive way to find out.

Marcon

Dox wrote: »

.
If you and she can't find anything in the Trust Deed & Rules to tell you about spouse's benefits, you can then forward to the Pensions Advisory Service who will be happy to have a look for you (hence getting a soft copy to keep life simple): https://www.pensionsadvisoryservice.org.uk/ask-us

The Trust Deed & Rules is the ONLY definitive way to find out.

There shouldn't be a charge for sending you a soft copy.

Check the definition of 'spouse' - it could be that the marriage needed to take place while she was still an active member (one who was building up benefits at the time of the marriage).

Quite rare to find a DB scheme which doesn't have any survivor benefits, although widower's benefits for pre1988 service were often lower than widow's benefits.

Is it possible her sister's marriage was after the sister left active membership, so her husband didn't qualify because of this?

susieb

Marcon wrote: »

There shouldn't be a charge for sending you a soft copy.

Is it possible her sister's marriage was after the sister left active membership, so her husband didn't qualify because of this?

Thats our issue, I've married an ex fireman, but after he had started to recieve the pension. As I understand it, if we had married before then, and he had under 5 years pension paid, it would have paid for a short while to me, but as we married after, it stops the minute he dies. I also think theres no option to move it now as its already in payment. Hence while we are ok now, if anythign happens to him before me, I need to make sure I have a big enough pot to last me. Which isnt easy.

Dox

susieb wrote: »

Thats our issue, I've married an ex fireman, but after he had started to recieve the pension. As I understand it, if we had married before then, and he had under 5 years pension paid, it would have paid for a short while to me, but as we married after, it stops the minute he dies. I also think theres no option to move it now as its already in payment. Hence while we are ok now, if anythign happens to him before me, I need to make sure I have a big enough pot to last me. Which isnt easy.

Correct - you can't move the pension now it is in payment.

Has he looked at buying some life cover? May be worth investigating, although make sure what you buy fits your needs.

Silvertabby

Post-retirement marriage

If a former firefighter marries after leaving the fire and rescue service the surviving spouse's pension would be assessed as the greater of the following –

pensionable service after 5.4.1978 x 1/160 x firefighter's average pensionable pay

or 1/2 x service after 5.4.1978 x firefighter's pension total pensionable service

Susieb - your husband's service must have all been pre 1978 in order for you to not be eligible for a pension on his death? This rule applies to all public sector schemes (and many private ones as well).

susieb

Dox wrote: »

Correct - you can't move the pension now it is in payment.

Has he looked at buying some life cover? May be worth investigating, although make sure what you buy fits your needs.

Yes we have done that 50k increasing term, but only for 15 years due to age (57)

susieb

Silvertabby wrote: »

Susieb - your husband's service must have all been pre 1978 in order for you to not be eligible for a pension on his death? This rule applies to all public sector schemes (and many private ones as well).

Thankyou, thats really helpful, his service is all after 1978, he started in 1979, left after 32 years. It with west yorkshire pension fund, which when we asked they said no death benefit for me, however this seems not actually true then. I'm a bit annoyed that my IFA didnt check this when planning my needs, as he just went with me saying I'd have no spouse pension.

Just a thought, does the fact it was in payment before we married affect this? and why we were told no benefit for me

xylophone

http://www.wypf.org.uk/Member/Fire/1992/Active/SurvivorPensions/SurvivorPensions.aspx


Post-retirement marriage

If a former firefighter marries after leaving the fire and rescue service the surviving spouse's pension would be assessed as the greater of the following –

pensionable service after 5.4.1978 x 1/160 x firefighter's average pensionable pay,

or

1/2 × service after 5.4.1978
total pensionable service × firefighter's pension
total pensionable service

Should your husband write to the administrator to check?