Autism in employment.

chrissycn

andydownes123 wrote: »

I think nearly everyone has a bit of autism in them, don't they?

No. autism is a neurodevelopment disorder. You are either neurotypical (not autistic) or ASD. Autism isn't a mental health condition.

"Autism is not a mental health condition. However, we do know that autistic people are more likely to develop mental health problems. There can be many reasons for this, such as not getting the support you need." Source - https://www.autism.org.uk/get-involved/media-centre/news/2016-07-24-autism-and-mental-health.aspx

sangie595

marliepanda wrote: »

Of course not. Sorry but this is a bit of a bugbear so apologies for the rant, not aimed at you.

Autism is mental disability.

Are you saying everyone has a mental disability?

Of course not. What you mean is that you may have some friends who have personality traits which match some typical features of autism, such as getting annoyed if plans change, or finding it difficult to talk to new people. Those traits alone are not Autism.

There was a thread recently on the Anxiety and Adultery board (marriage fam whatever) where basically everyone decided they were an undiagnosed autistic because they hated small talk or didn't feel empathy in some situations.... eye roll.

Its the same way anyone who has pride in their house is suddenly OCD.

Its no different to saying anyone who ever experiences a pain in a joint is arthritic. Well everyone has a little bit of arthritis right?

Hmm. You aren't going to like this! But actually, to a degree, everyone who experiences pain in a joint is arthritic! Arthritis is a disorder of the joint which causes inflammation. Most every disorder of the joint causes inflammation, which is why there are thought to be over 200 separate forms of arthritis. And pain is a symptom - arthritis may not cause pain and may not cause pain all the time. I have, amongst other things, two arthritic hips that, medically speaking, were equally as bad as each other. One was very painful and was replaced two years ago. One has never caused any pain at all. The arthritis in my spine causes no pain - but causes nerve problems. The disorder in my shoulders causes inflammation and is technically one of the forms of arthritis, but is never described as such. ...

I think that, to some extent, you are wrong. Not so very long ago, autism didn't exist. Medically speaking. Like a lot of things, we've come to understand things better and have come up with labels to suit our observations. I sincerely doubt that we really have grasped the whole of the story yet though. We certainly haven't grasped exactly what it is or what causes it yet. And we have no idea the extent to which it may exist in some form in "normal" people because nobody is testing that! Mental disability, yes, ok. But that doesn't describe all autism very well, as a label, any more than generic labels suit lots of things. The term disability itself is rather loaded. Many people with autism are differently abled. Is that normal or not? I have no idea. I don't think science has got to a stage where it can answer the question either. We do know that autism is a spectrum. The problem is, we have no idea where that spectrum begins yet. So am I autistic? No idea. Or am I just "odd" in some respects? Also no idea. For me, it probably doesn't matter. For others it might. I think what matters most is not the label, but whether we treat people according to their ability and not according to our perceptions or misconceptions of it.

chrissycn

andydownes123 wrote: »

I think nearly everyone has a bit of autism in them, don't they?

sangie595 wrote: »

I think that, to some extent, you are wrong. Not so very long ago, autism didn't exist. Medically speaking. Like a lot of things, we've come to understand things better and have come up with labels to suit our observations. I sincerely doubt that we really have grasped the whole of the story yet though. We certainly haven't grasped exactly what it is or what causes it yet. And we have no idea the extent to which it may exist in some form in "normal" people because nobody is testing that! Mental disability, yes, ok. But that doesn't describe all autism very well, as a label, any more than generic labels suit lots of things. The term disability itself is rather loaded. Many people with autism are differently abled. Is that normal or not? I have no idea. I don't think science has got to a stage where it can answer the question either. We do know that autism is a spectrum. The problem is, we have no idea where that spectrum begins yet. So am I autistic? No idea. Or am I just "odd" in some respects? Also no idea. For me, it probably doesn't matter. For others it might. I think what matters most is not the label, but whether we treat people according to their ability and not according to our perceptions or misconceptions of it.

Please don't use the term "normal", neurotypcal is the acceptable way to describe somebody who isn't autistic.

Autism isn't a mental disability, it is a neurodevelopment disorder (the brain is wired differently).

Autism is a triad of impairments, you either fit this or you don't. Many people are assessed and don't fit the triad so they are then deemed nurotypical, therefore neurotypical people have been tested and continue to be tested.

It isn't a new medical condition by any means, it has been a term used since the 1940's.

I would like to add, I am a parent of two autistic children. I have had endless appointments with child psychologists, peadiatricians, occupations therapists, disability social worker and family support worker. I have learnt a fair bit and I am still learning.....

marliepanda

sangie595 wrote: »

I think that, to some extent, you are wrong. Not so very long ago, autism didn't exist. Medically speaking. Like a lot of things, we've come to understand things better and have come up with labels to suit our observations. I sincerely doubt that we really have grasped the whole of the story yet though. We certainly haven't grasped exactly what it is or what causes it yet. And we have no idea the extent to which it may exist in some form in "normal" people because nobody is testing that!

Honestly I think the blanket of 'everyone is a bit autistic' is ridiculous and I don't agree that I am wrong to say it. It is worrying how everyone just decides they have something from a snippet of a symptom...

marliepanda

chrissycn wrote: »

Autism isn't a mental disability, it is a neurodevelopment disorder (the brain is wired differently).

Autism is very often described as a disability, be that mental, developmental (as described on the main autism website) or learning disability.

However I more than agree with you either are autistic or youre not... there is not 'I'm a little bit this or that' or 'everyone is autistic..'

:eek:

sangie595

chrissycn wrote: »

Please don't use the term "normal", neurotypcal is the acceptable way to describe somebody who isn't autistic.

Autism isn't a mental disability, it is a neurodevelopment disorder (the brain is wired differently).

Autism is a triad of impairments, you either fit this or you don't. Many people are assessed and don't fit the triad so they are then deemed nurotypical, therefore neurotypical people have been tested and continue to be tested.

It isn't a new medical condition by any means, it has been a term used since the 1940's.

I would like to add, I am a parent of two autistic children. I have had endless appointments with child psychologists, peadiatricians, occupations therapists, disability social worker and family support worker. I have learnt a fair bit and I am still learning.....

Great, fine, whatever. You do know what neurotypical means? It means "average" - an average determined by some spurious relationship to whatever someone considers to be "normal". Which is why I used inverted commas around the word - to consider anything as "normal" is to make a judgement call that is spurious.

In the 1940's they also used electric shock treatment for mental disorder. Conjuring up a word in what is still the relatively recent past doesn't mean they understood it. Everything I read says that they are still guessing at lots of this. But honestly, if you would prefer that I treat neuroa typical people as different from everyone else, fine, that's your opinion. I won't be doing it. Because there are people with autism who are truly geniusses. They are differently abled than I am, and I don't see any of that as a disability, a disorder or anything else...i see it as part of what being human is. I shall continue to do so. Because in the end, the label that is attached had less importance than lots of other characteristics. If you called me arthritic, I would be extremely angry to have what I am reduced to a condition that is a part of me. I wonder if reducing someone to being autistic is any different? Perhaps they haven't been consulted about whether they wish to be defined by their condition?

PasturesNew

I have a very chequered work history. I mostly took the route of "temping" or "contracting" as you can go in, hate the company/people ... and know you're getting out soon

So it worked well....

I've not done well in jobs, seem to have got "picked" by the firms that were soon to close/be taken over/downsize/relocate etc.

I lost faith years ago in jobs/firms to be honest.

The hardest bit is the interview, when you're highly likely to say something exceedingly odd or stupid as you didn't answer a weird question with an answer they have on their hidden tick list

Doshwaster

This is an interesting read

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/09/autism-working-spectrum-capable-employees-talent

chrissycn

sangie595 wrote: »

Great, fine, whatever. You do know what neurotypical means? It means "average" - an average determined by some spurious relationship to whatever someone considers to be "normal". Which is why I used inverted commas around the word - to consider anything as "normal" is to make a judgement call that is spurious.

In the 1940's they also used electric shock treatment for mental disorder. Conjuring up a word in what is still the relatively recent past doesn't mean they understood it. Everything I read says that they are still guessing at lots of this. But honestly, if you would prefer that I treat neuroa typical people as different from everyone else, fine, that's your opinion. I won't be doing it. Because there are people with autism who are truly geniusses. They are differently abled than I am, and I don't see any of that as a disability, a disorder or anything else...i see it as part of what being human is. I shall continue to do so. Because in the end, the label that is attached had less importance than lots of other characteristics. If you called me arthritic, I would be extremely angry to have what I am reduced to a condition that is a part of me. I wonder if reducing someone to being autistic is any different? Perhaps they haven't been consulted about whether they wish to be defined by their condition?

I didn't tell you how to treat autistic people. I just pointed out that you are wrong and you didn't like it.

However, I'm sure your "reading" makes you considerably more knowledgeable than a parent dealing with autism on a day to day basis, taking courses on it and having endless meetings with experts.

It's good that autism is being discussed, but so frustrating that people have so many misconceptions and people don't listen to those "on the front line".

"Definition of neurotypical in English:

neurotypical
ADJECTIVE

Not displaying or characterized by autistic or other neurologically atypical patterns of thought or behaviour." Source - https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/neurotypical

chrissycn

sangie595 wrote: »

If you called me arthritic, I would be extremely angry to have what I am reduced to a condition that is a part of me. I wonder if reducing someone to being autistic is any different? Perhaps they haven't been consulted about whether they wish to be defined by their condition?

That's not remotely comparable.

Comments like this put off parents considering an ASD assessment for their child.

Diagnosis is vital to get all the support they need. We wouldn't have the team of experts supporting us without a diagnosis, it's made and still continuing to make a huge difference.