IFA gave advice but wont sign declaration

dunstonh

I've emailed them and offered to sign something to say I wont hold them liable for my actions, record a phone conversation or even pay for an indemnity for them.

That wont work. The FOS disregards those disclaimers. However, you dont need to do any of that as you are not asking the PTS to facilitate the transfer. All you are asking them to is confirm that they have given advice.

The scheme administrator is only required to get confirmation that you have sought and been given advice. Not what the advice was. There is actually very little liability for the PTS for signing that form as they are just confirming advice was given. (Liability would be if they haven't given advice but signing to say they had).

The real liability for the PTS is if they were to facilitate the transfer. i.e. insistent client basis. However, you are not doing that.

mazworld15

mazworld15 wrote: »

Thank you very much

Just webchatted with the Pensions Advisory Service they advise to find an IFA that will sign and go through it all again

mazworld15

mazworld15 wrote: »

Just webchatted with the Pensions Advisory Service they advise to find an IFA that will sign and go through it all again

Sorry about all the questions should I ring round and see if I can find an IFA to do it again but one that will sign the report if the advice is not to transfer? Problem is I only have til Oct 10th to get the form into the pension administrators.

Brynsam

mazworld15 wrote: »

Just webchatted with the Pensions Advisory Service they advise to find an IFA that will sign and go through it all again

I'd send them the link given in post 8 of this thread, cite the advice you were given by web chat and say you are struggling to reconcile what their CEO had to say on the radio with the web chat answer/please could they explain?

Malthusian

I would say no. I agree with dunstonh that your case should be cast-iron. The only reason to see a new IFA would be to save the time it will take the complaint to work its way through the system - first the firm, then the Financial Ombudsman.

However, given a new IFA would have to send a letter of authority, get the information all over again, get a TVAS report done, etc etc etc, I suspect the time saved would be trivial - a few months. Unless the FOS are incredibly slow or you find a very efficient IFA.

One thing I am unsure about - the FOS will almost certainly tell the business to sign the damn declaration. However, I am not clear on whether this would be legally binding on the firm. FOS awards up to £150,000 are legally binding, if they award more than this then the excess is not. I am not sure how this applies to non-monetary awards.

If you do see a new IFA, make sure they charge on a non-contingent basis, in other words you pay them a fixed fee for the advice whether they recommend a transfer or not.

Problem is I only have til Oct 10th to get the form into the pension administrators.

I assume that the consequence if you miss the deadline is that the guarantee on the CETV will expire?

When you complain to the adviser, make sure you say that if you miss the deadline due to their intransigence, you will require them to compensate you for any fall in the CETV, plus the fee you will have to pay to the scheme to obtain a new one. If you've already complained, add it to the complaint. Say the same to the FOS.

Unless the adviser has a change of heart you are going to miss the deadline, no matter which route you go down. On the other hand, the prospect of having to cover any fall in the CETV might concentrate their minds. Give the adviser the Moneybox link and point out that they don't have a leg to stand on.

mazworld15

Brynsam wrote: »

I'd send them the link given in post 8 of this thread, cite the advice you were given by web chat and say you are struggling to reconcile what their CEO had to say on the radio with the web chat answer/please could they explain?

Thank you I will

mazworld15

Brynsam wrote: »

I'd send them the link given in post 8 of this thread, cite the advice you were given by web chat and say you are struggling to reconcile what their CEO had to say on the radio with the web chat answer/please could they explain?

Reply from PAS

I have checked with my technical team - we will have to look into this and get back to you by email.

mazworld15

Malthusian wrote: »

I would say no. I agree with dunstonh that your case should be cast-iron. The only reason to see a new IFA would be to save the time it will take the complaint to work its way through the system - first the firm, then the Financial Ombudsman.

However, given a new IFA would have to send a letter of authority, get the information all over again, get a TVAS report done, etc etc etc, I suspect the time saved would be trivial - a few months. Unless the FOS are incredibly slow or you find a very efficient IFA.

One thing I am unsure about - the FOS will almost certainly tell the business to sign the damn declaration. However, I am not clear on whether this would be legally binding on the firm. FOS awards up to £150,000 are legally binding, if they award more than this then the excess is not. I am not sure how this applies to non-monetary awards.

If you do see a new IFA, make sure they charge on a non-contingent basis, in other words you pay them a fixed fee for the advice whether they recommend a transfer or not.

I assume that the consequence if you miss the deadline is that the guarantee on the CETV will expire?

When you complain to the adviser, make sure you say that if you miss the deadline due to their intransigence, you will require them to compensate you for any fall in the CETV, plus the fee you will have to pay to the scheme to obtain a new one. If you've already complained, add it to the complaint. Say the same to the FOS.

Unless the adviser has a change of heart you are going to miss the deadline, no matter which route you go down. On the other hand, the prospect of having to cover any fall in the CETV might concentrate their minds. Give the adviser the Moneybox link and point out that they don't have a leg to stand on.

Thank you so much I should be buying you all a drink x

mazworld15

From the PAS

am emailing to follow up on our chat from earlier today to clarify our understanding of the situation where a financial adviser advises against proceeding with a defined benefit transfer.



Where the financial adviser advises against the transfer but still proceeds to arrange the transfer with the receiving provider, they treat the customer as an insistent client. In this case they will normally ask the client to sign a disclaimer that they are proceeding against their advice. Some advisers will not proceed on an insistent client basis.



Whether or not an adviser is willing to proceed on an insistent client basis doesn’t of course alter the fact that they gave advice in the first place (even if that advice was negative).



Financial advisers are regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA). The FCA’s Conduct of Business Sourcebook (COBS) sets outs rules for undertaking business, including pension transfers.



https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/COBS/19/1.html



COBS rule 19.1.10 states that “Where a firm has advised a retail client in relation to a pension transfer or pension conversion, and the firm is asked to confirm this for the purposes of section 48 of the Pension Schemes Act 2015, then the firm should provide such confirmation as soon as reasonably practicable.”



Therefore our understanding is that a firm should confirm that they have given advice, even if they are not then arranging the transaction. However this doesn’t necessarily mean that they must sign the exact declaration the scheme is asking them to sign.



You may therefore want to mention this rule to the adviser concerned. In the event that they will not provide confirmation you may wish to make a complaint against the firm and in the event of an unsatisfactory response raise this with the Financial Ombudsman Service. Unfortunately this does not necessarily mean that the confirmation will be provided before the existing transfer value expires.



You may wish to ascertain whether the issue is that they are unwilling to provide confirmation or whether there is anything specific about the wording of the declaration they are being asked to sign that is causing an issue. For instance the adviser may be wary of giving impression they are transacting the transfer for you on an insistent client basis.



Section 48 of the Pension Schemes Act 2015 states that “Where a member of a pension scheme has subsisting rights in respect of any safeguarded benefits, or a survivor of a member has subsisting rights in respect of any safeguarded benefits, the trustees or managers must check that the member or survivor has received appropriate independent advice before….



b) making a transfer payment in respect of any of the benefits with a view to acquiring a right or entitlement to flexible benefits for the member or survivor under another pension scheme;”



http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/8/section/48/2015-06-08



As you have mentioned that the scheme has received sight of the advice report you may also wish to check with the scheme whether sight of the advice report itself has satisfied Section 48 of the Pension Schemes Act 2015 even if the declaration is not signed. In the event that the adviser will confirm they gave advice, but not sign the exact declaration the scheme requires again you might wish to enquire with the scheme if that itself means that the requirements under Section 48 of the Pension Schemes Act 2015 have been met.



Please note that some pension providers may not accept transfers in where someone proceeds on an insistent client basis, or where there is no adviser involved at all, so you may need to check that with the intended recipient.



Please also note that although this is our understanding of the legislative requirements, we are not lawyers and this is not in any way legal advice.



Please accept my apologies for any confusion earlier. If you have any further questions please let me know.



I hope this helps.



Regards

mazworld15

Thanks to all of your advice it happened! Cash in now in the SIPP now to work out what to do with it