Unfair Suspension from Bar Work

Comms69

Masomnia wrote: »

This is such a blatant case of someone being constructively unfairly dismissed that I actually wondered if it was someone doing a 'mystery shopping' exercise. OP you'd be advised to speak to ACAS and maybe citizens advice, if you don't have access to legal cover.

Maybe ask your manager to confirm the contents of your conversation in an email with him, if you phrase it in such a way of you wanting to check if that is the case before you make a decision he might... I would get advice first though.

Hows that? This is clearly gross misconduct.

JReacher1

Comms69 wrote: »

Hows that? This is clearly gross misconduct.

I don't agree. Giving the ex manager of the bar (and GF of the deputy manager) a free drink when the bar has a previous track record of giving free drinks out doesn't seem to be a clear cut case of gross misconduct.

If I was being suspicious I would wonder whether the ex manager has told her boyfriend (the deputy manager) that she has a crush on you and as such he is jealous! He is therefore trying to sack you!

marliepanda

JReacher1 wrote: »

I don't agree. Giving the ex manager of the bar (and GF of the deputy manager) a free drink when the bar has a previous track record of giving free drinks out doesn't seem to be a clear cut case of gross misconduct.

It was the ex manager, her friend, AND one for himself! One drink to the ex manager I imagine he could potentially argue away, but 3?

Comms69

JReacher1 wrote: »

I don't agree. Giving the ex manager of the bar (and GF of the deputy manager) a free drink when the bar has a previous track record of giving free drinks out doesn't seem to be a clear cut case of gross misconduct.

If I was being suspicious I would wonder whether the ex manager has told her boyfriend (the deputy manager) that she has a crush on you and as such he is jealous! He is therefore trying to sack you!

I mean drinking on the job.

nicechap

Mirceadece wrote: »

........
In the past 3 years of me working there, i don't believe there has been a single time where i personally charged her for the drinks, as she used to manage the bar itself and her current BF is the Deputy Manager. .....Since she offered, i also had a shot with them before they left.

I specifically asked her before she left if it's alright to give her free drinks I wonder how many customers would turn down a free drink in a bar? and if she's gonna speak to the Deputy Manager next day explaining the situation. Of course she said yes, but she is probably unaware of the suspension.


He also presented me the following:

1. The theft, fraud or dishonesty claim comes from the fact that i've given free drinks to the customer (ex-manager, his current GF) without asking for permission or putting any transaction through. This happens despite the fact that we often give free drinks to certain friends of managers, working in the same bar for a long time you get to know them quite close. It's something that goes without saying. So no evidence that it is allowed.

2. The gross negligence claim comes from the fact that i also had a shot with them before they left. It has often been the case that when a customer asks to buy us a drink, we accept. Also, the manager has specifically mentioned many times in staff meetings that he does not mind us having a drink or having some fun, within reasonable limits. Other bartenders were also present at the meeting, in case there is a need for witnesses.
Managers have seen us in the past having a drink/shot, there have been cases where people were sent home due to being drunk, without the need of a suspension/disciplinary meeting. As far as i am aware, this has been the only suspension in the past 3 years.


Personally, i am not bothered about the 'Theft, Fraud or Dishonesty' claim as it seems to be blown out of proportions and used as a scare tactic in order to make me resign by my own will.
They will definitely bring it up as a case of me giving free drinks away, regardless of the fact that we've been consistently doing it for years as a bar.

(they have me on camera doing it)

I am only interested in being treated fairly, You only have the right to be treated legally fair

What would you personally advise me to do in this case?

....

The balance of probabilities suggest you will be dismissed for gross misconduct.

Given your skills, it shouldn't be difficult to find alternative bar work to support your studies, my step daughter returned from Camp America last week and already has a job in a pub, and that's with no previous experience.

Masomnia

Comms69 wrote: »

Hows that? This is clearly gross misconduct.

Suggesting that an employee resign rather than face disciplinary is textbook constructive dismissal. Employment Law 101. It'll be trickier if OP is zero hours. Proving it can be difficult too.

Also just because an employee commits gross misconduct doesn't mean that dismissal will automatically be fair.

The manager is obviously clueless. 'Face a two month process' for GM? They could have him out in a week. The manager just wants OP out, probably because they're running a shoddy branch and they're jealous over the girlfriend. I imagine the last thing they want is for OP to go to a hearing. If the manager was working for me they'd be under investigation for putting the business at high legal risk.

Masomnia

Les79 wrote: »

I can literally sum up my skepticism with the police analogy...

You, and several cars, are driving along at 35mph in a 30 zone. The police pull YOU over and fine you, but let the others go. They have blatantly targeted you, but you were in the wrong so have no defence to refute the action taken against you.

I don't see how that's relevant. Case law has been pretty clear that where an employer dismisses one employee but not another in parallel circumstances then there has been an unfair dismissal.

Les79

Masomnia wrote: »

I don't see how that's relevant. Case law has been pretty clear that where an employer dismisses one employee but not another in parallel circumstances then there has been an unfair dismissal.

Righto, I'm not going to argue with you.

In all truth, I was intrigued by you going against the grain of the thread but felt that you hadn't elaborated enough to give OP anything to work with.

Maybe you are pretty clued up, but simply saying "case law has been pretty clear that..." without examples (again, not discrediting you and I feel you will have some useful examples; the phrase "blood from a stone" is probably apt though) is a bit useless to OP. Meat on the bones!

(unless you are trying to subtly hint to OP that they should be seeking [paid for] third party help)

Masomnia

Les79 wrote: »

Righto, I'm not going to argue with you.

In all truth, I was intrigued by you going against the grain of the thread but felt that you hadn't elaborated enough to give OP anything to work with.

Maybe you are pretty clued up, but simply saying "case law has been pretty clear that..." without examples (again, not discrediting you and I feel you will have some useful examples; the phrase "blood from a stone" is probably apt though) is a bit useless to OP. Meat on the bones!

(unless you are trying to subtly hint to OP that they should be seeking [paid for] third party help)

Don't really want to argue as such. I have massive reservations about this forum, and threads like this are the reason. This is actually quite a complex employment issue, imho, and I really don't think people should be coming on here to ask for 'advice' on a case like this, and if they do we should direct them to someone who can help them

If someone posted on here asking how to calculate holiday entitlement, or what the law says about SSP, or whether or not they're entitled to their full 39 weeks redundancy pay if made redundant during mat leave then it's fine. But a query like the one the OP posted really should be directed to a professional who is qualified and insured to give advice.

I obviously don't know every case off the top of my head, and I don't really think that googling the cases every time and posting them is helpful, but I'm willing to do it if asked. I don't think employees raising grievances quoting case law is a good idea as HR departments never respond well to it (not in my experience of working in them anyway).

I actually found it a bit shocking that no one seemed to pick on up on the really glaring point that the manager was forcing him out and had no intention of following a fair process, when he stated he had 3 years service. Or maybe they did but they didn't want to mention it? I don't know.

Mirceadece

First of all, I would like to thank everyone for their honest and straight to the point responses, i was pleasantly surprised by the amount of knowledge and the willingness to share it.

Upon taking all the advice into consideration, i have decided that the best course of action for me was to put forward my resignation letter. This was decided after i have agreed with the Deputy Manager for him to write a 'golden' resignation letter, in the case that i ever decide to undertake part-time bar work in the future.

I will move on and focus on my last year of my Master Course, which is going to be more than a handful to manage. The advice has been greatly put to use, thank you.