PV+ Scam?

Rackabello

Hi,

My nan has just had someone from "Think Green Energy" round trying to sell her something called PV+. Apparently the company that installed her solar panels went into liquidation, and Think Green Energy won the bid for their customers.

He said that the PV+ would increase the output of her solar panels by 20%, by preventing the inverter from cutting off due to overcurrent. He looked at the inverter, and pressed a bunch of buttons and brought up a number on the display that was something like 468, where he said it should have been 200 some. I assume he was talking about voltage and meant that should've been 240v. In which case 468 seems ridiculous?

I spoke to him a bit over the phone, and my uncle who was present said afterwards that he looked agitated as I was asking various questions about how this worked, why it was needed, if the increased output was guaranteed etc.

In the end he wrote down her card details (long number, plus security code) in order to take a deposit of £100, and the full amount would be about £2300. He also said that this was with a friends and family discount that he could only give her today, so she had to agree right away.

He then stayed in the car outside her house for about half an hour (she saw him drive away after that amount of time).
After looking into it and immediately finding a PV+ for £700 with postage and installation, I had her cancel her card to prevent them taking her deposit, so thankfully no money has been taken.
I also had someone check the inverter, which was showing an AC grid voltage of 246v, nowhere near what was said. We're also going to use a USB stick to get logs of whether the inverter is, in fact, cutting out at all, and how much, to see if a PV+ is a good idea in general.

I'm just posting this, really, to see if my assessment of the situation is correct. Does this sound as scammy to you as it does to me? Is PV+ always a scam, or can it be useful and this was just oversold and overpriced? Also, do you think this is something I should be considering reporting?


Thanks

Coastalwatch

Rackabello wrote: »

Hi,

My nan has just had someone from "Think Green Energy" round trying to sell her something called PV+. Apparently the company that installed her solar panels went into liquidation, and Think Green Energy won the bid for their customers.

He said that the PV+ would increase the output of her solar panels by 20%, by preventing the inverter from cutting off due to overcurrent. He looked at the inverter, and pressed a bunch of buttons and brought up a number on the display that was something like 468, where he said it should have been 200 some. I assume he was talking about voltage and meant that should've been 240v. In which case 468 seems ridiculous?

I spoke to him a bit over the phone, and my uncle who was present said afterwards that he looked agitated as I was asking various questions about how this worked, why it was needed, if the increased output was guaranteed etc.

In the end he wrote down her card details (long number, plus security code) in order to take a deposit of £100, and the full amount would be about £2300. He also said that this was with a friends and family discount that he could only give her today, so she had to agree right away.

He then stayed in the car outside her house for about half an hour (she saw him drive away after that amount of time).
After looking into it and immediately finding a PV+ for £700 with postage and installation, I had her cancel her card to prevent them taking her deposit, so thankfully no money has been taken.
I also had someone check the inverter, which was showing an AC grid voltage of 246v, nowhere near what was said. We're also going to use a USB stick to get logs of whether the inverter is, in fact, cutting out at all, and how much, to see if a PV+ is a good idea in general.

I'm just posting this, really, to see if my assessment of the situation is correct. Does this sound as scammy to you as it does to me? Is PV+ always a scam, or can it be useful and this was just oversold and overpriced? Also, do you think this is something I should be considering reporting?


Thanks

Yes, it's a scam and well done for preventing them taking any money and Yes, it also needs reporting. I'm not entirely sure where but the link below could be a good starting point:-


https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/report_fraud


I suspect others are more familiar with this particular company or individual, as it's not the first case to be reported on here so will possibly be able to add further proof. If any is needed.:(

Martyn1981

Rackabello wrote: »

Hi,

I also had someone check the inverter, which was showing an AC grid voltage of 246v, nowhere near what was said. We're also going to use a USB stick to get logs of whether the inverter is, in fact, cutting out at all, and how much, to see if a PV+ is a good idea in general.

I'm just posting this, really, to see if my assessment of the situation is correct. Does this sound as scammy to you as it does to me? Is PV+ always a scam, or can it be useful and this was just oversold and overpriced? Also, do you think this is something I should be considering reporting?


Thanks

Hiya, and thanks for posting that, clearly looks like a scam given the mark up, and TBH probably not worth having the kit anyway.

Inverters (most of them) should shut down if the grid voltage hits 253V (you say the inverter was showing 246V, so it's a bit high there, but it does vary across the country and also depending on the day and time etc.). the shutdown is for safety reasons to prevent PV pushing the grid voltage even higher as it should be operating at between 216 and 253V.

I've only noticed one of my inverters shutting down about 3 or 4 years back when the voltage hit 253V (Sunday afternoon, when demand is low). It restarted about 10mins later when the grid voltage had dropped back down.

It may have happened more, but certainly not anything that is impacting annual generation here, and typically grid voltage is in the high 230's.

Perhaps the 468 he noted was the DC side voltage suggesting approx 16 panels (if they are 30V each and on a single string). What does that mean ..... nothing, just the PV system doing what the PV system does, taking in DC leccy at a certain voltage and amperage, then changing it to AC at a grid similar voltage.

Lastly, another check you could do is look at section 5 of the PV FAQ's (see my autosig) and see what the annual PV generation guesstimate for your Nan's system is, then divide the total figure from the TGM (total generation meter) by the number of years the system has been operational, and see if the numbers are similar.

Please come back and chat/check all the numbers as it would be useful to see how all of this, and my speculation(s) fit together.

zeupater

Hi

Thought it sounded familiar ... have a look at ... this thread ... from April 2016 as it contains a similar discussion at the time ...

HTH
Z

Rackabello

Coastalwatch wrote: »

Yes, it's a scam and well done for preventing them taking any money and Yes, it also needs reporting. I'm not entirely sure where but the link below could be a good starting point:-


https:// www. actionfraud.police.uk/report_fraud


I suspect others are more familiar with this particular company or individual, as it's not the first case to be reported on here so will possibly be able to add further proof. If any is needed.:(

Nice to have that confirmation. The guy was very charismatic and nice about everything, but I knew something wasn't right with all the pressuring sales tactics, and his answers to my questions were not solid enough.

I hope to hear from people who are familiar with this particular company, if there are any around. I really want to ensure this doesn't happen again, as without me this company would be a bit better off, and my Nan would be really struggling. She was all ready to look into getting a loan!

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Hiya, and thanks for posting that, clearly looks like a scam given the mark up, and TBH probably not worth having the kit anyway.

Inverters (most of them) should shut down if the grid voltage hits 253V (you say the inverter was showing 246V, so it's a bit high there, but it does vary across the country and also depending on the day and time etc.). the shutdown is for safety reasons to prevent PV pushing the grid voltage even higher as it should be operating at between 216 and 253V.

I've only noticed one of my inverters shutting down about 3 or 4 years back when the voltage hit 253V (Sunday afternoon, when demand is low). It restarted about 10mins later when the grid voltage had dropped back down.

It may have happened more, but certainly not anything that is impacting annual generation here, and typically grid voltage is in the high 230's.

Perhaps the 468 he noted was the DC side voltage suggesting approx 16 panels (if they are 30V each and on a single string). What does that mean ..... nothing, just the PV system doing what the PV system does, taking in DC leccy at a certain voltage and amperage, then changing it to AC at a grid similar voltage.

Lastly, another check you could do is look at section 5 of the PV FAQ's (see my autosig) and see what the annual PV generation guesstimate for your Nan's system is, then divide the total figure from the TGM (total generation meter) by the number of years the system has been operational, and see if the numbers are similar.

Please come back and chat/check all the numbers as it would be useful to see how all of this, and my speculation(s) fit together.

Thanks for your reply, it sounds like you know a lot about the topic. It does seem like her voltage has the potential to make a PV+ beneficial, if I understand correctly? We're going to try to get log data from the inverter in case it is shutting down.

But in the meantime checking the annual generation sounds like a good idea. I'll be able to find out the size of her system and annual generation tomorrow with any luck, and I'll let you know the figures.

It sounds like it was the DC figure he was using from what you're saying, which seems definitely dodgy.

I also had a question based on some things I've seen about inverters shutting down. It sounds like them shutting down is important for safety reasons. Is bypassing the inverter shutdown actually safe/legally acceptable anyway? I'm not sure I understand how it works, but it seems that the cutoff is there for a reason.

zeupater wrote: »

Hi


Thought it sounded familiar ... have a look at ... this thread ... from April 2016 as it contains a similar discussion at the time ...

HTH
Z

Yeah, that seems really similar to the tactics this salesperson was using, from how I understand it. I only know what I was told over the phone, but I'll have a chance to look at the salesman's documents this weekend and see if there's much else concerning, as there seem to be in that thread. I definitely want to report this if possible, because my Nan would've taken out a loan of £2300 which she can't afford if I hadn't been helping her out financially.
It's terrible that people have been getting away with this, and obviously finding it very profitable!

pinnks

I doubt PV+ would be beneficial for any of us and even if it could deliver anything like the claimed benefits, you would never repay the investment.

I have had my system for 5 years and it has never shut down, for any reason.

I would leave the system as-is and reap whatever benefits it is already providing. Also, don't entertain the idea of people cleaning the panels or peddling any other snazzy add-ons, like voltage optimisers or new inverter because the old one is dusty or out of warranty or whatever other trash these vultures peddle.

Rant over - but these crooks do annoy me, not least because they give the reputable businesses and the whole industry a bad name - oh dear, another rant!:beer:

Merlin139

PV+ if it was so good at doing what they say someone would have done what I asked my installer to do in April 2016 in the thread I started which zeupater referred to.

They would have installed two systems next to one another. One with it and one without it. Nobody has done that so I wonder why? Well I know why it does not improve production by 20%!

This company is running it as what looks like a scam but other installers are including these with systems they are selling. Why I think just to bulk out the profit.

I am glad you were able to help you nan and save her money.

Fl4sh

I too had a call.from.these and an engineer turned uo today. I too.was told they had taken over the customer database from my supplier who went bust. Promised.to.sort out any problems i had with system....yeah right...went onto loft twiddled with inverter and came back with photo of readings also totalling over 400..280 on one set of panels and 188 on other..said they should both read 240 volts and so i needed a pv+ optimiser. Sent him.packing as wanted £2995 for the priviledge!!.
With a bit of research it seems that each oanel generates approx 30v of dc power..i have 16 panels.so thats approx 460..this then gets inverted to 240v ac so he was blagging me. To further allay my suspicions i spoke to afore who manufacture the inverters and he confirmed that they are aware of this scam
Don't fall.for.it!!!

Fl4sh

I too had a call.from.these and an engineer turned uo today. I too.was told they had taken over the customer database from my supplier who went bust. Promised.to.sort out any problems i had with system....yeah right...went onto loft twiddled with inverter and came back with photo of readings also totalling over 400..280 on one set of panels and 188 on other..said they should both read 240 volts and so i needed a pv+ optimiser. Sent him.packing as wanted £2995 for the priviledge!!.
With a bit of research it seems that each oanel generates approx 30v of dc power..i have 16 panels.so thats approx 460..this then gets inverted to 240v ac so he was blagging me. To further allay my suspicions i spoke to afore who manufacture the inverters and he confirmed that they are aware of this scam
Don't fall.for.it!!!

Martyn1981

I'm curious about the legality of all this.

Firstly let me stress that I hate (strong word, but I really do) scams and mis-selling, but appreciate that sometimes they get away with it on the basis that they are trying to sell you something that might help a bit, but isn't worth the price.

But ..... here, they are turning up claiming to be responsible for maintenance, then an 'engineer' identifies a problem, and advises you, you need to take action and hand over £'000's.

Isn't that beyond dodgy sale tactics, and actually into the realm of conman and therefore illegal?

pinnks

Interesting thought. I also wonder how this all fits with the new GDPR rules if they have "acquired" your information from a firm that has gone bust. If they are breaching those rules the penalties are massive.