'Death by dangerous cycling' law considered

custardy

EachPenny wrote: »

Cyclists who want to stay alive and uninjured do. It is one of the basic principles of road safety that mutual respect is essential to reduce casualties, vehicle drivers not respecting cyclists needs (passing space, not turning left in front of them, road positioning) is a significant cause of cycle casualties. If cyclists had the respect of more vehicle drivers then fewer would get killed or injured.

Cycling should be a means of transport and leisure, it shouldn't be a willy-waving contest. Cyclists with a bad attitude and no respect for other road users are just as guilty as other vehicle drivers doing the same thing.

I wouldn't say it is a massive issue. It is just one of those things, like the law on causing death by riding a cycle, where the law needs to be tidied up at some point.

Respect in not being killed by a motorist? Are these not the fully trained and licensed people who are held in high regard against these problem cyclists.
Are you saying whats posted here impacts a cyclists chance of coming home alive?

Have you ridden a bike? You know the effort it takes to get to and maintain 20+mph?

custardy

Oh and as an aside. The Torys have seen fit to remove this from their Twitter.

Pennywise

Why not just beef up and simplify the existing laws. Not sure why existing manslaughter laws aren't enough to cover someone who kills by driving/riding any form of vehicle carelessly. Is it really a different offence to ride into someone at 30mph in a pedestrian zone as opposed to other ways of accidentally killing them due to your own negligence, such as not securing the load on your van, not tightening the bolts on scaffolding you're erecting, sending a worker into a hot oven to un-jam it when it's still too hot, signing off an unsafe building??

You can't create a new law for every different possible way of killing or injuring someone.

[Deleted User]

custardy wrote: »

Respect in not being killed by a motorist? Are these not the fully trained and licensed people who are held in high regard against these problem cyclists.
Are you saying whats posted here impacts a cyclists chance of coming home alive?

Have you ridden a bike? You know the effort it takes to get to and maintain 20+mph?

No they have nt ridden a bike Custardy and they never will by the sound of it. Reaching a speed of 20mph takes some doing and most can t keep it up for long. My max speed on my lightweight road racer is no more than 26 mph and that was going downhill with a following wind.
As an old timer now I only average 12 to 14 mph on long runs and that is plenty fast enough for me

silverwhistle

EachPenny wrote: »

If cyclists had the respect of more vehicle drivers then fewer would get killed or injured.

How about "If women didn't wear short skirts they'd get more respect from the men who rape them."?


Classic victim blaming both statements.

EachPenny

custardy wrote: »

Respect in not being killed by a motorist? Are these not the fully trained and licensed people who are held in high regard against these problem cyclists.
Are you saying whats posted here impacts a cyclists chance of coming home alive?

Have you ridden a bike? You know the effort it takes to get to and maintain 20+mph?

Yes, I cycle. I've also been responsible professionally for promoting cycling and improving road safety. Hence my belief that mutual respect is essential, and a bad attitude towards others is dangerous regardless of what form of transport you use.

Sustaining 20+mph is not what we are taking about in city centres - here it is sprint speed, and a lot of the riders involved have hi-tec bikes and/or ride on a professional basis. We're not talking about leisure cyclists out for a Sunday afternoon pleasure trip.

Houbara wrote: »

No they have nt ridden a bike Custardy and they never will by the sound of it. Reaching a speed of 20mph takes some doing and most can t keep it up for long. My max speed on my lightweight road racer is no more than 26 mph and that was going downhill with a following wind.
As an old timer now I only average 12 to 14 mph on long runs and that is plenty fast enough for me

I'm guessing you aren't a commuter or professional rider familiar with conditions in central London then?

Your average speed on a bike is typical of the average speeds many car drivers in London experience, but average speed is not where the danger to others is found.

custardy

EachPenny wrote: »

Yes, I cycle. I've also been responsible professionally for promoting cycling and improving road safety. Hence my belief that mutual respect is essential, and a bad attitude towards others is dangerous regardless of what form of transport you use.

Sustaining 20+mph is not what we are taking about in city centres - here it is sprint speed, and a lot of the riders involved have hi-tec bikes and/or ride on a professional basis. We're not talking about leisure cyclists out for a Sunday afternoon pleasure trip.


I'm guessing you aren't a commuter or professional rider familiar with conditions in central London then?

Your average speed on a bike is typical of the average speeds many car drivers in London experience, but average speed is not where the danger to others is found.

comparing average speeds with cars is a bit of a red herring.
Cars etc are slowed down by other vehicles,so their speed is reduced.
Same with cyclists in London being slowed somewhat on average speeds by other cyclists and cars etc hindering progress.
so since you have the knowledge,how many cylists are regualrly 'sprinting' on their commute?

EachPenny

silverwhistle wrote: »

How about "If women didn't wear short skirts they'd get more respect from the men who rape them."?

Classic victim blaming both statements.

You appear to have misread or misunderstood my post. If you use your example in my comment then it would read:-
"If women had the respect of more men then fewer would get raped." Or if you prefer, "If more men respected women, fewer would get raped". Does anyone object to that statement?

It isn't 'victim blaming'. It is pointing out the fact that cyclists would be safer if drivers respected them, and for that to work the respect has to be mutual. Adopting an approach along the lines of 'all drivers are homicidal maniacs' just perpetuates the lack of mutual respect.

EachPenny

custardy wrote: »

comparing average speeds with cars is a bit of a red herring.
Cars etc are slowed down by other vehicles,so their speed is reduced.
Same with cyclists in London being slowed somewhat on average speeds by other cyclists and cars etc hindering progress.

Not sure of the point you are making - the comparison I was drawing is that average speed is not reflective of maximum or even typical speed and not where the danger to others is found. Houbara's 12-14mph average could consist of some 20+mph 'sprints' followed by some waits at traffic lights and some uphill climbs. If they happen to hit 26mph in a street full of pedestrians then they are potentially a danger to other road users, even if the journey as a whole is taken at a leisurely 12mph. Exactly the same considerations apply to vehicle drivers.

custardy wrote: »

so since you have the knowledge,how many cylists are regualrly 'sprinting' on their commute?

A lot. Professional riders more so because they are operating on a 'time is money' basis.

Malthusian

EachPenny wrote: »

Adopting an approach along the lines of 'all drivers are homicidal maniacs' just perpetuates the lack of mutual respect.

But also your lifespan.

Personally I'd rather be disrespected and alive than a respectable corpse.