Overpaid / wrong pay slips

Ohdeer

Hi everyone!

Everything started with a week of holiday leftover from 2017 (I honestly have no Idea how I managed to do this). They were supposed to pay me this back in my January 2018 wage.

I did not receive this until the middle of May.

Amount outstanding £323.62 (7.5hoursx£8.63/hx5days)
For some reason, and I really regret accepting this, they offered me a faster payment.

Manager says she will pay £265 out of the £323.62 directly via ebanking and talks something about not having to pay taxes (red flag?).

£323.62 - £265 = £58.62 amount they were supposed to send to NI/Tax in my name (until July I haven't have never seen any of this happen but just you wait )

JUNE comes around. I look at my wageslip and there is a surplus of £265 on my basic salary. So basically the post tax/ni amount of my previous holiday payment on a pre tax/ni basic salary.

I tell my manager and she scapegoates the accountant. They are clearly not talking to each other. She says she'll talk to him and have it take out of my next wage.

Now I might be wrong with this but correct me if you have to: they can't deduct the full £265 since that's not what I received in the end. They have to deduct the £173 and the rest they have to claim back from HMRC/NHS ni/tax whatever. Since I don't have that money anymore to begin with? Again not sure if this applies I could be wrong. I thinkt that might be the only thing she is right with here.

July comes around. Now we have received the wageslip but payment doesn't go out until Tuesday so I hoped I could have the accountant adjust this before it goes out. Accountant is only in on Fridays.

Look whats there? Another SURPLUS of £58.62 (and no deductions) on my basic salary. Recognize the amount? That's what they were supposed to send to TAX/NI from my holiday payment in May.

I honestly am at a loss for words, I couldn't give a rattooth less but the problem is that I have to pay all of this back.

I have given in notice for the end of August (31.) as I will be moving back overseas. I chose this date as it is much easier organisation wise and my company wouldn't have to think about any partial payments, they can do the slip as normal.

Now it is the other way around and I have to pay back THEM for 4 days of holidays that I took off too many in 2018. They said that they would do that with my last wage 31st August.

No with all the deductions in full as my manager claims this my basic salary would go down from £1402.37 to £819.85 BEFORE taxes. That can't be right can it? After tax this is £804. That's almost £600 pounds of difference for an initial deduction value of £582,52 (before taxes and NI that I have already paid).:eek:

I do have accounting/HR qualifications in my home country so I am just slighty cringing at the way my company is handling things. but to be fair I am not too familiar with the British ways as we in Switzerland do insurance and taxes ourselves at home and it is completely separated.

The other problem is that I am not sure whether I will be able to keep my bank account when moving back. When they screw up something again it will be much harder to pay them back via my Swiss account.

Any tips? Should I check with ACAS (not trying to be a snitch just getting approval lol)? Should I speak to the accountant personally?

Thanks xx

Dox

Couldn't be bothered to plough through all the above - just the beginning and end paragraphs. Of course talk to the accountant - seems entirely logical. Get the accountant to set out in writing what should have happened/what has happened/how it will be remedied.

Ja7188

The way I'm reading this, the £265.00 is supposed to be a float to tide you over until they've managed to properly correct your pay and it sounds like the view was to pay it in the same way expenses are paid and then reclaim it via payroll - but it's impossible to tell for sure from the above.

I don't think you'll get any useful advice unless you're prepared to share a breakdown of what's on each of your payslips for May, June and July, plus details of any other sums you've been paid during this period - since you received a payment in the middle of May, I'm assuming that there have been payments outside of the normal payroll run...?

sangie595

International money transfers between countries are simple and routine. Switzerland is an international centre for banking. I'm sure they'll be able to cope with the idea of transferring money.

I lost the will to live on the rest of it. Someone with a maths brain will no doubt come along and think about it. But I'm not sure what you think ACAS can do - they aren't accountants, and find employment law challenging, so I doubt they'll be of any use on mathematics!

Ohdeer

Yes the holiday pay was paid outof the normal payroll cycle. I however only received the post NI/TAX amount via bacs and the rest was supposed to be paid in by them for NI/Tax. They have never done that instead they put it on my basic salary as well in the July wage slip.

The problem here is tbh that I don't think either the accountant nor the my manager really have clue what's going.

Ja7188

OK - so it looks like the following has happened...

For your unused holiday from 2017, you were owed £323.62, which is subject to tax & NI. You have paid £265.00 as a tax-free sum outside of the normal payroll cycle and another £323.62 (one payment of £265.00 and one payment of £58.62 via payroll in the normal way). I think you therefore owe them £265.00 back and I believe this should be deducted from your net salary, not your gross - so I would say that they can indeed "deduct the full amount".

For your excess holidays, I think you'll find that they can indeed reclaim any time used in excess of your pro-rata allowance for the holiday year to date - presumably this accounts for the full difference between £1402.37 and £819.85, which suggests you've used a lot more than your entitlement, although some of this "gap" has effectively been filled by the £323.62 as you didn't use all your allowance last holiday year.

Something does appear wrong here though as 4 days' worth of holiday doesn't account for nearly £600...

Suggest you get everything in writing from the accountant well ahead of your leaving and ensure all the figures are agreed by around the middle of August as they will likely to have submit payroll figures very soon after this time.

Savvy_Sue

Ja7188 wrote: »

Suggest you get everything in writing from the accountant well ahead of your leaving and ensure all the figures are agreed by around the middle of August as they will likely to have submit payroll figures very soon after this time.

Possibly earlier: my absolute cut-off date is mid-month, and I'm usually trying to get it finalised by the end of the first week. So the OP should be pursuing this ASAP (which I am sure they are).

Hama4075

OK, I like a payroll challenge so here goes!

Firstly, I think it's confusing when you talk about fixed amounts of tax/NI to be sent to HMRC for the additions or deductions from your pay. It does not work like that because tax/NI is calculated and paid or reclaimed on the total pay each month, not on the individual additions and deductions that are part of that pay.

Instead, I suggest you just think about what's added or deducted to:
gross pay (pre-tax/NI) and
net pay (post-tax/NI).
Then the tax and NI will look after themselves.

It sounds to me like this happened:

1. For untaken holiday in 2017, the company owed you £323.62 (7.5hoursx£8.63/hx5days).

2. It sounds like the company estimated that this would result in an extra £265 in your net (post tax/NI) pay and decided to advance you £265 by Faster Payment. However this would be temporary and would be only a loan, until the full correct amount went through payroll.

Situation so far

1 £323.62 to be added to your gross (pre-tax/NI) salary in a future payroll, for 5 days untaken holiday in 2017

2 a) £265 goes into your bank account (no tax or NI deducted) as an advance
2 b) £265 loan to be repaid, ie deducted in June from net pay
This is all correct.

June payroll - It sounds like they made two mistakes

Situation now:

1 £323.62 to be added to your gross (pre-tax/NI) salary in a future payroll, for 5 days untaken holiday in 2017
The accountant added only £265 to your gross pay in June
They still need to add another £58.52 to gross pay to make the correct amount.
(£265 + £58.52 = £323.62)

2 a) £265 went into your bank account (no tax or NI deducted) as an advance
2 b) They should have deducted £265 from net pay to pay this back.
They still need to deduct £265 from net pay

July payroll. It sounds like they added the £58.52 to your gross pay. Now they have correctly paid you for your 5 days of untaken holiday in 2017.

Situation now:

1 £323.62 to be added to your gross (pre-tax/NI) salaryin a future payroll, for 5 days untaken holiday in 2017
They added £265 to your gross pay in June
They added £58.52 to gross pay in July.
(£265 + £58.52 = £323.62)
This is now sorted. Hurray!

2 a) £265 went into your bank account (no tax or NI deducted) as an advance
2 b) They should have deducted £265 from net pay to pay this back.
They still need to deduct £265 from net pay

August payroll

They need to deduct (7.5hoursx£8.63/hx4days) = £258.90 from gross pay
for 4 days holiday taken over 2018 allowance.

Situation now

2 a) £265 went into your bank account (no tax or NI deducted) as an advance
2 b) They should have deducted £265 from net pay to pay this back.
They still need to deduct £265 from net pay

3 They need to deduct £258.90 from gross pay for 4 days holiday taken over 2018 allowance.


That is my take on it: August should have a deduction of £258.90 from gross pay and £265 from net pay. Does it make sense?

At any rate, I would discuss your final pay as soon as possible with the accountant (not the manager), agree a written calculation with them before the August pay is processed and ask them for a letter or email confirming the calculations that are agreed.

If you cannot agree to a calculation with the accountant in advance of the payroll, I think there is no harm in ringing ACAS (and letting the company know that . Just the word ACAS might make them try harder!). If you do speak to ACAS, I would not give them the financial details. I would just say that you disagree with the company calculations and ask in general what steps you can take in that kind of situation.

Having a UK bank account is the least of your worries in my opinion. The biggest problem is getting them to stop adding mistake onto mistake. I am more than cringing at what a mess they are making! What a nightmare. I definitely recommend getting it sorted before your final payroll.