Dreading upcoming changes

sangie595

lcc86 wrote: »

We don't want to stop it, but we want to be given trust and flexibility to carry out our roles appropriately, not forced into teams and unable to see other colleagues who we co-work with on specific cases. We want to ensure we have appropriate equipment to do our jobs and to ensure our clients still receive the same service as before. We work in a statutory/legal service so there's no other provider that can do our work for the most part.

They are saying we can work from satellite offices however can't tell us where these offices are, which leads us to believe they don't exist as they've closed most of the satellite offices already, so in effect we ARE being forced to work from home in a way as there's nowhere else for us to go. Okay we might be out doing visits part of the time but as you say there will be an impact on our bills etc. The money we save on commuting will help a little with the increase in bills I suppose. I feel there are some personal benefits to working from home (saving a massive amount of time commuting for example) but we can't get answers to basic questions such as insurance, desk assessments etc, and we start this in less than 6 weeks!

I'm actually down south, but I'm aware it's going on in various locations. I know of other councils where it's worked well but they were more flexible in their approach.

I want to raise it with managers but am worried about their response and any potential repercussions.

In that case I think you are right - worry about the repercussions. The thing is, there no half way house. In most, but not all, these situations it seems that trust and flexibility go out of the window. Yes, there are advantages to working from home (I have loads of home working, so I'm a huge fan). But the disadvantages are huge too, and I'm not seeing the counterbalance in what you are saying. If this is happening in six weeks, then it is well beyond negotiation - any concessions now will be minor. The decisions are made and there's no going back on them. So what you want simply isn't going to happen and it's unrealistic to expect it to. This won't be resolved by talking. You fight - collectively - or you shut up, put your heads down, and do as you are told. Personally I'm not advocating the latter. However it needs to be all in or not.

I am going to say it just one more time. You ARE NOT being forced to work from home. Your employer cannot make you do that. It is your home. The employer has NO control over it. Where there is for you to go is your employers problem. You turn up at work, and they must find you a location to work from, and if they don't have one they send you home on full pay because they are unable to provide the working environment required. But the minute that you work from home once, you've concurred with the arrangement.

I do appreciate that you think this working arrangement won't work. That you want to work with your colleagues. Etc. Etc. I understand why. I get it. But... That is not your call. Right or wrong, it's the employers call. You've said what you think. They've ignored you. They have every right to do so. That's not me siding with them - it's just the plain truth. They don't have to listen to a thing toy say, and it sounds like they aren't going to. So you force them to. Or you don't.

lcc86

sangie595 wrote: »

In that case I think you are right - worry about the repercussions. The thing is, there no half way house. In most, but not all, these situations it seems that trust and flexibility go out of the window. Yes, there are advantages to working from home (I have loads of home working, so I'm a huge fan). But the disadvantages are huge too, and I'm not seeing the counterbalance in what you are saying. If this is happening in six weeks, then it is well beyond negotiation - any concessions now will be minor. The decisions are made and there's no going back on them. So what you want simply isn't going to happen and it's unrealistic to expect it to. This won't be resolved by talking. You fight - collectively - or you shut up, put your heads down, and do as you are told. Personally I'm not advocating the latter. However it needs to be all in or not.

I am going to say it just one more time. You ARE NOT being forced to work from home. Your employer cannot make you do that. It is your home. The employer has NO control over it. Where there is for you to go is your employers problem. You turn up at work, and they must find you a location to work from, and if they don't have one they send you home on full pay because they are unable to provide the working environment required. But the minute that you work from home once, you've concurred with the arrangement.

I do appreciate that you think this working arrangement won't work. That you want to work with your colleagues. Etc. Etc. I understand why. I get it. But... That is not your call. Right or wrong, it's the employers call. You've said what you think. They've ignored you. They have every right to do so. That's not me siding with them - it's just the plain truth. They don't have to listen to a thing toy say, and it sounds like they aren't going to. So you force them to. Or you don't.

Thank you, I'll see how we get on with some form of collective action this week. I think where we've gone wrong is when we've had no response/an unacceptable response to our concerns and it's worn down morale so we haven't done anything about it, which really needs to change. Most of us accept it's happening and there is no plan B per se as far as the employer is concerned, but nobody has told us our rights or indeed our obligations. Fingers crossed we can get somewhere this week!

getmore4less

lcc86 wrote: »

We've done that and been told it'll be looked into... This is an answer we seem to get a lot, which roughly translates to me as "oh sh*t we haven't thought about that".

As far as I'm aware it's not contracted externally, there is a team in charge of the change but even they don't seem to know what's going on. It's to help save money, which I completely understand given the climate we're in, but it's being done inflexibly and with no thought of the impact.

I meant the job you are doing

are you contracted to do that by/for someone else?

Ie. is there an organisation above yours that ultimately is responsible for service delivery and have specified the scope of the service.

sangie595

lcc86 wrote: »

Thank you, I'll see how we get on with some form of collective action this week. I think where we've gone wrong is when we've had no response/an unacceptable response to our concerns and it's worn down morale so we haven't done anything about it, which really needs to change. Most of us accept it's happening and there is no plan B per se as far as the employer is concerned, but nobody has told us our rights or indeed our obligations. Fingers crossed we can get somewhere this week!

I try not to say this too often because I'm biased. Nobody has told you your rights or obligations? And you were expecting your employer to tell you what your rights are??!! I've got to assume that you're all reasonably intelligent adults... Telling you what your rights are is the unions job. Since none of you joined, not having that information is your fault - it was down to you to know your rights if you aren't willing to pay for someone else to to know them for you.

It beggars belief how often people here seem to imagine that the employer or their HR department are responsible for "looking after them" and telling them their rights. The only rights any employer is interested in is their own, and the HR department that the employer pays for is there to serve that function - to look after the employers interests.

It is too late now this time around. But if have to say that I hope all of you have learned your lesson. Unions are imperfect. They are only as strong as their members. And they cannot prevent an employer from doing something lawful (although their members can - it's called industrial action!). But they are the only people who are interested in your rights, or on your side.

At the risk of being banned (again) by the Forum Team, sites like this are rubbish when it comes to employment. In the best case scenario, one or two posters will know what they are talking about really well. But even they can make mistakes - it's impossible to know or remember everything, and they are posting advice based on brief and highly subjective information. There are also an awful lot of self appointed "experts" who actually post totally wrong information and claim it's the law. And in the middle there's a lot of people who know some things very well and other things not at all. In other words, it's a lottery. You may as well stand on a street corner and ask passers by what your rights are - you'll get as reliable an answer as you will here!

If your are content to play Russian roulette with your job, then fine. If you aren't, you need to join a union.

lcc86

getmore4less wrote: »

I meant the job you are doing

are you contracted to do that by/for someone else?

Ie. is there an organisation above yours that ultimately is responsible for service delivery and have specified the scope of the service.

Sorry no we are employed directly by the council, apologies for the mix up.

lcc86

sangie595 wrote: »

I try not to say this too often because I'm biased. Nobody has told you your rights or obligations? And you were expecting your employer to tell you what your rights are??!! I've got to assume that you're all reasonably intelligent adults... Telling you what your rights are is the unions job. Since none of you joined, not having that information is your fault - it was down to you to know your rights if you aren't willing to pay for someone else to to know them for you.

It beggars belief how often people here seem to imagine that the employer or their HR department are responsible for "looking after them" and telling them their rights. The only rights any employer is interested in is their own, and the HR department that the employer pays for is there to serve that function - to look after the employers interests.

It is too late now this time around. But if have to say that I hope all of you have learned your lesson. Unions are imperfect. They are only as strong as their members. And they cannot prevent an employer from doing something lawful (although their members can - it's called industrial action!). But they are the only people who are interested in your rights, or on your side.

At the risk of being banned (again) by the Forum Team, sites like this are rubbish when it comes to employment. In the best case scenario, one or two posters will know what they are talking about really well. But even they can make mistakes - it's impossible to know or remember everything, and they are posting advice based on brief and highly subjective information. There are also an awful lot of self appointed "experts" who actually post totally wrong information and claim it's the law. And in the middle there's a lot of people who know some things very well and other things not at all. In other words, it's a lottery. You may as well stand on a street corner and ask passers by what your rights are - you'll get as reliable an answer as you will here!

If your are content to play Russian roulette with your job, then fine. If you aren't, you need to join a union.

I completely understand your point and it is an error on our part that we've coasted along as we have. We were told we'd be consulted and involved at every step, so I guess we were naïve to believe that. Lesson learned, action being taken.

lcc86

Just to update on this, we banded together and gave management a full list of our concerns, which they addressed as fully as possible last week (they don't know some of the answers but are trying to find out).


Nevertheless, the changes will make it quite hard for us to do our jobs, and four people have left in recent weeks. Morale is understandably quite low, and I too am open to looking elsewhere.


On the plus side, our managers listened to us and did the best they could in the circumstances. Some of the answers are far from ideal and aren't going to work in reality, but they are in a similar boat to us in some respects in that they have no control over the changes either.