Help I feel swindled

xylophone

Can you name the scheme and indicate whether there is any link to the pension booklet on line?

Example from one bank DB scheme

https://futurefocus.staff.hsbc.co.uk/-/media/project/futurefocus/information-centre/deferred-db/guides/midland-member-guide.pdf

and from a public service scheme

https://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/members/classic/

Dox

sue139uk wrote: »

I had been living with that, on a very tight budget, because I understood that was the best thing to do. It was the best thing for them, but the very worst for me.

In fact the administrators INCORRECTLY pointed out that it was to my advantage to defer. I would have got lots more had I taken it as soon as possible (as I now know my co-workers had done by taking it at 55).

I only have recent lump sums to compare, and they have changed only with inflation and I presume the costs of the scheme have been deduced too.

It's irrelevant to the administrators what you do - they get paid to administer the scheme regardless. All those charges are paid by the scheme (and thus indirectly the employer, as paymaster of the scheme).

The administrators will have given you facts; they are not allowed to give advice, and they will know that. How you chose to interpret the information is up to you.

Lump sums don't change with inflation - or at least only slightly. The rules of the scheme set out what you will receive. To say other workers invested their lump sums and got inflation-beating results is all very well, but who knows where you would have invested yours - it could have done far worse.

Having come up with that string of negatives, what is still staring me in the face is your denial that you've ever received information about the scheme when you joined it and when you left it. There is a legal requirement to provide a leaving service statement and you should also have received information when you joined. If you still want to complain, that's the basis on which to do so.

Be aware that your complaint is unlikely to succeed, because you have not lost out financially. You might have had 8 years more of pension if you'd drawn it from age 55, but it will have been at a much lower level and that lower level continues for life. The actuary will have estimated any reduction factors based on mortality tables applying to the whole scheme, not just one individual, which is why the administrators can't answer your question about you personally. The calculation is designed to ensure that, by the time you die, the amount of pension you will have received is roughly the same at whatever age you started to draw it.

xylophone

full pension at State Pension age,

You say that you joined the scheme in around 1988 and that you expected to retire at "State Pension Age" - at that time, SPA for women was 60 - are you saying that Scheme Normal Pension Age was 60?

Or are you saying that it was always age 65 and you expected to draw your pension at that age?

And you can absolutely confirm that when you took redundancy you were not given a statement of deferred benefits nor even a letter from the pension Scheme Trustees on the lines of either that you would be contacted in advance of Scheme NRA or that you would need to claim your pension at Scheme NRA?

You have now brought your pension into payment - was there an automatic Pension Commencement Lump Sum or the opportunity to commute part of the pension to give you a lump sum to top up your savings had you so wished?

And it is the new state pension for which you have obtained a statement?

Silvertabby

sue139uk wrote: »

xylophone: I expected to be able to retire on full pension at State Pension age, which I knew was increasing.

I have a State Pension statement for this year, and will look it out.

I am absolutely certain that when I accepted redundancy and hence left the scheme that I was not given a statement of deferred benefits.
Is there any information about your scheme on line?

Sue - I think that you have got yourself in a muddle between your State pension and this occupational pension. The increase in pension age applies to your State pension only, and not your occupational pension. If you were told that you could access this pension at 60, then that never changed - but if the scheme NRA was 65 then taking your pension from 60 would have resulted in an actuarial reduction for early payment being applied. Reading between the lines of your posts, I suspect that this is what may have happened.

Marcon

If you joined the scheme in about 1988, that was well before retirement ages in occupational pension schemes had to be equal for men and women, so your scheme retirement age was almost certainly 60, in line with the state pension age.

It would astonishing if the scheme had not contacted you during the process of equalising scheme retirement ages (not to be confused with state pension age!) to explain what they were going to do to comply with a notorious judgement from the European Courts in 1991 (known as the Barber judgement), which was subsequently clarified/should have been implemented by all occupational schemes in the early/mid 1990s.

Most members will have thrown away the letter they received, having quite reasonably concluded they hadn't the foggiest what it meant - but it will have been sent.

You do seem to have studiously avoided naming the scheme, which would have meant comments could possibly have been better tailored to your question.

I'd take the advice given previously - have a word with TPAS (post 7).

sue139uk

Thank you all for your help. I will be in contact with the Trustees by mail today, and let you know if I can find any more paperwork about the new state pension.
I can absolutely confirm that when I took redundancy I was not given a statement of deferred benefits nor even a letter from the pension Scheme Trustees at all. I have every wage slip filed, and redundancy letter too.
You have all been most helpful. I did not realise such help was available and have felt alone and out of my depth for so long.

doubletop40

Remarkable memory OP, you are certain you never had a scheme booklet.


Anyway by not taking your pension early, my belief FWIW, is you did the right thing, it will almost certainly lead to a bigger income going forward. When I retired in 2006 at fifty I knew I could take my pension reduced by (15*4) 60% .I'm going to take it in a month or so reduced by 10%

xylophone

I can find any more paperwork about the new state pension.

You can obtain a new state pension statement here

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

And can you ask the Trustees what Scheme NRA is?

xylophone

but if the scheme NRA was 65 then taking your pension from 60 would have resulted in an actuarial reduction for early payment being applied

If NRA is 65 then had she taken it at age 55 then the actuarial reduction could have been substantial, anything up to around 50% and that would be for life?

Marine_life

sue139uk wrote: »

I have "lost out" massively. I have found out this year that fellow workers who drew their pension early and invested the lump sum have seen it increase by more than inflation.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - if I had known Amazon shares would have gone up so much I would have invested all my money (and indeed as much of other peoples money as as I could lay my hands on). Remember shares also go down.

sue139uk wrote: »

Also they have had the benefit of having money in their pocket to spend. This pension is a DB scheme for life, so their monthly income has also been increasing.

Yes, but remember, they took their money earlier so would have suffered an actuarial discount


I'm not being unkind but sometimes we make financial decisions that, with the benefit of hindsight, we regret. But it does not sound like you have been swindled as your thread title suggests.