Creditor Withdraws petition - Why

GTS15

Hi


Hope someone here can help in a very odd situation , my business sadly closed last year after 10 years and as with most things caused a lot of financial hardship and pressure. For me I understand the situation and was made bankrupt by one of the company creditors. Now this is where it becomes very odd , as at the time of the loan the creditor insisted that my wife sign the form which she did not want to do as had nothing to do with the business. The company Alfanderi agreed that after certain amount of payments are made she will be removed from the loan. After the said payments were made we had to fight to get a letter from the stating she is not libel for the debt. Now skip forward to the present and as the company is now wound up and I am made bankrupt they have started to pursue my wife for the debt and applied to make her bankrupt also.


At the hearing Alfanderi presented many papers however conveniently missed out the letter and emails regarding her being removed, fortunately we had copies and the judge was not impressed with Alfanderi and explained to me wife that he would put off the hearing and explained how to fill in a AII form. Now a few days before the next hearing we have had an odd email asking us to dismiss the hearing. See email chain below (names taken out). The company has now placed a charge on the house against her share , so not sure what they are trying to do and cannot seem to find answers anywhere. Would be grateful if anyone could answer


1 Why would they ask for the case to be dismissed
2 Can they issue again
3 If my wife has a letter stating she is not responsible how can they have issued a charge order with land registry
4 Can the charge be removed
5 Should we attend the hearing


Sorry if long winded but head battered


Kind Regards


Gary


EMAIL CHAIN NEWEST FIRST


Hi


In that case then no I wish the hearing to go ahead , I should never have being in this position in the first place as Alfanderi have gone back on their word as to the agreement.

The only thing I will agree to is an end to the whole affair and my name taken off a charge order that should never have being issued against me, I have plenty of paperwork for the judge to check over and make his decision

Kind Regards


J*****e



Hide original message


On Wednesday, 6 June 2018, 18:20, > wrote:


Mrs L*******y

I am talking about the Petition only.

The hearing next week will determine whether you have a dispute with my client!!!8217;s claim which should be looked into further. It will not determine the dispute.

Yours sincerely



Director

From: ]
Sent: 06 June 2018 18:19
To: >
Subject: Re: Server from court case 0032 of 2017



Hi


Still unsure what that means , does that mean that the charge is removed from the house in my name and that it would be an end to this saga


Kind Regards



J******e




On Wednesday, 6 June 2018, 18:11, > wrote:


Mrs L******y


I am simply offering a walk away settlement whereby the Petition is dismissed and neither party is awarded their costs of the action. It would mean no attendance at the hearing.


Yours sincerely



P J*******e

Director



From: ]
Sent: 06 June 2018 17:43
To: >
Subject: Re: Server from court case 0032 of 2017



Hi


Sorry I don't understand what that means and what happens to me so cannot say one way or the other.

Please explain fully and what the actions and implications are


Kind Regards





J******e



On Wednesday, 6 June 2018, 12:01, <.com> wrote:



Mrs L******y




I refer to the forthcoming Bankruptcy hearing at the County Court in Durham.

My client has concluded that the Court is likely to determine that there is a dispute which ought to be considered further. As the Bankruptcy Court will not consider any dispute regarding payment of a debt it follows that there is a risk the Bankruptcy Petition may be dismissed. In the circumstances, my client has requested me to invite you to consent to the Bankruptcy Petition being dismissed next week with no order as to costs. Please can you let me know if you are prepared to agree to this order?

I look forward to hearing from you.



Yours sincerely

P J*******e
Director

MEM62

How can they place a charge on the house without a Court judgement?

sourcrates

MEM62 wrote: »

How can they place a charge on the house without a Court judgement?

It can be a voluntary charge, if you agree to it.

National_Debtline

Hi GTS15 and welcome to the forum


It sounds like this company has decided there is a good chance the court will not accept the bankruptcy petition so are looking for your wife's agreement to stop the proceedings and avoid a hearing. Where a hearing is held there could potentially be further costs to be paid by one of the parties involved.


However it is not clear how they obtained a charging order. How did you become aware of that? The debt should only be secured if it was either a secured loan when it was taken out, your wife agreed to a voluntary charge or they obtained a CCJ and then a charging order. She can check her credit file to see if a CCJ has been against her for this debt.


Given the urgent nature of your query I'd certainly recommend getting in touch with one of the free debt advice agencies for more help. Good luck with it all.


Susie
@natdebtline

GTS15

Hi


No CCJ on either of us, the company in question have apparently at the time of sending the Stat demand also applied for a charge order to house which came to light in a conversation about my bankruptcy, however they included it for my wife also. The company who wound up my business said they are being very naughty by placing a charge and a bankruptcy. The part that is worse is the fact my wife should have had to go through this. The Judge at the time is the only person who offered any advise as was not impressed that a letter stating she is not liable was not given by Alfanderi. All our debts were pretty much mine via PG's to the business and Joanne had never even had a credit card so she is distraught at having to fight this.


Tried to speak with Citezens advise etc and could never get a straight answer as to if the court dismisses the case does that mean she cannot be pursued for the debt anymore and the charge removed from her share.


The impression and blunt chat I had with Alfanderi was that they are unregulated (so FSA waste of time) and they not bothered about the bankruptcy and will continue to collect one way or another hence why they won't remove the charge , so not sure if we can once judgement made.


Hope this makes sense, as the last 8 months and now is a living hell due to this.

debt_doctor

Hi,

I'm sorry but this charge does not make sense. If you re-read Susie (from National Debtlines) post, you cannot have a Charge on your property unless it was either;
A secured loan from the start.
A charge that you agreed to have placed upon the property (Voluntary Charge).
A successful application for an interim and then final Charging Order AFTER they obtained a CCJ against you.

As for the hearing in isolation, if you decide not to accept the creditors offer of withdraw then you could be left with the costs - but so could they - that is for a court to decide.

In a bankruptcy hearing the judge really needs to decide two things;
1) Do you owe the money - IF there is a CCJ in place then the court deems that as a yes.
2) Are you insolvent - are you unable to pay your debts AND do your liabilities outweigh your assets.

If, as you say, the judge has seen documents that they feel leads towards that she does not owe the money then it will fail on test 1 (above) and the petition must be dismissed. However, this does something very important for you - the court has decided that she does not owe the money.

If then the creditor applies later for a CCJ, then you would use the courts decision in the bankruptcy court as your defence.

DD

GTS15

Maybe so , but it has being done. The contract was a business loan , however Alfanderi are very seaky and hidden in the terms its called a Hire Agreement hence why not covered by FSA rules. For me I understand the implications it was my company and I guess I take my medicine and accept what has happened however the way they are treating my wife is nothing short of bullying.


In my interview I brought this up and the girl explained that more and more companies are ignoring the bankruptcy orders and continue to collect. When asked why it is because they are very rarely brought to task for their actions, so continue as there is not a gov body that will tackle.


Sad but true as in this process I have tried to speak to everyone and their dog who I though should help and the answer is always the same , sort out yourself not in our remit with Citizens Advise& FSA being a total waste of time when supposed to help. So if this is the answer most get I understand why it happens as not many people keep their resources to be able to fight in the courts so the company wins.

National_Debtline

Hi again GTS15


Unfortunately it's difficult to understand how the charging order has come about so I would recommend contacting one of the free debt advice agencies for more help. As this is a business debt I'd suggest contacting Business Debtline at www.businessdebtline.org or call them on 0800 197 6026.


Susie
@natdebtline

GTS15

Thank you however these agencies are a waste of time and serve no use at all as offer no advise at all. (Already called) We have another hearing in the morning so will see what happens, as clear that Alfanderi will shy away from bankruptcy and try other means.

GTS15

Well 1 hurdle over as went to court with wife and she defended the claim and the judge found in her favour. As to the charge a creditor can apply a charge at anytime with no need for a CCJ they just register a interest with land registry and still take a bankruptcy route as asked the judge as to why it happened and that was his answer. (Judge was excellent and tried very hard to help)


However Lloyds who have my personal rental house are being very awkward. Posted this as a separate thread so putting here to keep together


Hi all


Very odd situation so will try and be brief. My business of 10 years failed leaving me with nothing as I was the companies biggest creditor and tried to do the right thing by using my savings , every penny to pay what I could. As a result I had to give up my 2 houses in order to get out of a charge order a creditor placed. Coventry where ok and took the house fine however llyods are being nothing but bullying. I gave a letter and keys into the branch in Feb this year and my bankruptcy came through in april 2018 so never thought anything of it till I received a letter telling me to sign a short fall waiver. I rang up to find out what was what and the woman who was incredibly bullying stated that they will do nothing as I am in credit in the mortgage some £22,000 due to overpayments. As the payment is only £70 per month it will take a very long time to clear. I know some will say just pay the mortgage however no point as the charge will make all the stress of the bankruptcy etc for nothing.


My real question is since I gave the keys in and the bank acknowledge this can they then decide that they wont take back and force me to sign a form that will effectively wipe out the bankruptcy. Just when I thought the stress was over this happens and really makes you wonder what is the point as nobody helps