Bankruptcy Restriction - But it was my ex that went bankrupt?

the_all_new_me

The following will read as much as a story riddled with vendetta, as much as a story of my experience but is also a request for assistance in a very public and clear way so that parties involved are clear that I am prepared to take this as far as I possibly can go:

Where to start, all this began in 2009, a long time ago in a town not so far far away, I have to be careful what I write because the last time I posted anything about this situation I had the police at my door so apologies if I come across as aloof somewhat but I am here looking for advice. I know involved parties will be reading this as they were responsible for identifying the inference back in 2009 banged in a complaint and I was subsequently reprimanded, I know they frequent these forums, I know they will be reading this - hello to you all.

No names are mentioned in this account.

In 2007 me and my then partner took out a Northern Rock Together Mortgage, that wonderfully infamous product that allowed you to consolidate all your joint outgoings into one easily managed payment – or that’s how it was sold to me, it also allowed us as first time buyers to put down the deposit on the property. It seemed the perfect product at the time, we were buying our matrimonial home, we were going to fill it with kids and live out the rest of our years blah blah blah you know the parties intentions, naturally that didn’t happen as here I am.

Still in 2007 the proceeds of the loan were also used to purchase a car and clear some debts belonging to Partner B and make contributions towards their Post Graduate studies loan. I did indeed benefit from the loan as well, so we do not contest the responsibility but it’s only fair that we are equally and jointly responsible.

Early in 2009 Partner B (me being Partner A) decided to part ways in the relationship somewhat unexpectedly, ceased all contributions towards the property, as well as ceased contributions to the loan taken out with the mortgage, the joint bank account which was nearly £4,000 in arrears by the time they had done what they needed to - funny story this, I wasn't able to freeze the account without their joint approval, but damn the other party managed to get some serious dosh out of it before their bankruptcy! Oh yeah and a credit card with about £5,000 on it. Coupled with the Loan against the Mortgage (a total of £30,000) it became apparent Partner B was going to cause some serious damage to my cash flow. I was so desperate at one point what went from £20k went down to “I’ll take the car” – this never happened.

Discussions were held which became so desperate I was prepared at one point to just accept the car in consideration of her, him or even it (I’m more inclined to referring to Partner B as “It” for the purposes of this but that’s unfair to clowns) for that matter, leaving. Discussions about bankruptcy were had but I'm in a bankruptcy sensitive profession so it was never an option, and they... well let's just say they work (sorry worked perhaps still work) for the organisation that investigates the legitimacy of your bankruptcy and are often the trustees in matters of dealing with your assets that by law they are entitled to recover in order to satisfy your creditors, they are the organisation that will determine the length of any BRO you may have. But rather than name them we will call them "The Man"< queue pantomime music> just so we can avoid inferences - oh wait there?!?! erm whatever.

I digress... later in 2009 Partner B petitioned for bankruptcy... you see in that moment I discovered my former life partner was going bankrupt, I was naturally upset and rang them up to politely to discuss the situation and how it was mightly unfair that they would do this to someone that they once loved and wanted to spend eternity with, though for one reason or another it was not as polite as I may have wished it to have been.

Within 24 hours the police were on the doorstep telling me that if I attempt to contact them again I would be arrested for harassment. I’m hoping 9 years is sufficiently long enough to mean that harassment order has expired, if not read this whilst you can before it gets pulled.

In that instant Partner B went bankrupt, I inherited all those joint responsibilities and the extent of any sympathy I got from those creditors was “joint and severally liable”. Naturally needing somewhere to live I had to service the mortgage, serving the mortgage meant I had to serve the loan too. But then the bank wasn’t happy about the joint account and neither were the credit card company and I can tell you this for free, no matter how well you run those accounts the moment one party goes bankrupt, those companies all of a sudden get a yearning for hearing your voice, preferably squirming, preferably begging for them to be lenient but as long as in the end you’re paying what they consider due to them!

Now this is VERY relevant - at the point of their bankruptcy a sum total of £580 had been paid off against the mortgage – bloody interest GRRRRR!!!! A mere £270 had been paid off against the loan. Remember these sums because these change drastically later on.

Northern Rock were of little assistance during the immediate term, they registered the property as subject to a matrimonial dispute meaning nothing could be done – porting, changing the names, renting, selling the lot, without the approval of the other party. When having intermediaries discuss matters with the other party all we got was “it’s the Official Receivers now”. Even if it meant just signing a piece of paper… “it was the Official Receiver’s now”. Northern Rock did an affordability test and naturally rejected any preliminary application to become sole named mortgagee. Recounting this tale to them time after time became as easy as pressing play on a tape recorder – or whatever media software you use on your phone.

Now some of you older lot out there will remember the dark days of 2009 as being the height of the recession, what dark times it was, imagine how much darker it became when in 2009 your employer invoked a 3 day working week!!! Hard choices were made and I managed to go self-employed (fortunately for me) but I wasn’t always so fortunate to have lucrative contracts, for 3 years I struggled with the mortgage, at a number of points more was owed against the mortgage and the loan than was originally taken out. At one point the arrears racked up to nearly £9,000.00, and the Mortgage company naturally were not happy with this so sought repossession, Christmas 2012 I thought I was going to lose the house. To this end I have to thank Northern Rock – NRAM – Landmark Mortgages for actually being patient with me during those times. Though by 2012 I would like to point out my interest was no longer fixed and the mortgage hit a hefty high of 6.18% and there was nothing I could do to port it.

2013 I began to turn this around, though it meant doing a !!!! Whittington and working in London, within a year I had made a huge dent in the arrears and things were looking up. By 2014 I was able to discuss with the Man about taking over their interest. Discussions were had, things were progressing, I was on first name terms with an agent of “the Man”, the house was still suffering from negative equity so there was little interest for “the Man” to retain his. At one point it was even discussed that for the princely sum of £211 the interest would be resolved. House was valued, valuation was sent in, Mortgage statements were sent and statements outlining the share of interest Partner B had in the property. For some reason, unexplained… communications went dead with “the Man.” Legal advice was sought and in order to get the ball rolling the solicitor approached Partner B and said “If Partner A takes on the full responsibility of the loan, will you comply with all requests made of you.” It turns our Partner B never responded. The subsequent advice was “sell the property, and everything will come out in the wash.”

And that my friends (if you are still with me) is where I am now…

2018, after managing the Mortgage and Loan well and making significant overpayments to achieve as much equity as I can, the days of screening calls from the mortgage company are long gone. A quick “out of interest” valuation at the start of the year promised a good return… the house FINALLY had some (not much but some!) increase in value, of course serving the mortgage and the loan all by myself had contributed to the greater part of any potential proceeds from the sale but finally after 9 years the house was worth marginally more (£8,500 more to be precise, so if you’re in the South please feel blessed that you don’t have to deal with the trials and tribulations of being a Northern Monkey with property that can actually go DOWN in value and not recover for best part of a decade). Of course I always knew that it was going to be hard to deal with the ex, I also knew that on my title deeds was a restriction still but surely my discussions with the Man in 2014 were going to be useful.

NOPE, THEY WERE NOT!!! Initially the Man requested half of the sale proceeds, this was negotiated down using the “equitable determination” argument, though between you the reader and me the idea of paying a single penny towards Partner B’s bankruptcy fills me with anger and dread and frustration and I can’t help but feel like I’ve kind of lost. We’re currently sat at just short of £4,000 and I know what many of you will be saying… but it’s such a small price to pay… Price means nothing when it comes to principle and I’m a man of principle, and whilst principles will get me killed, I really don’t care... that’s principle! I’m at a point where I have spent weeks gathering of information, collation of evidence, I’ve lost days at work, spent hours in the bank asking to produce statements from 2007 onwards, having to pay monies to get copies of mortgage statements, spent hundreds on photocopying and stationary etc – do you know how much tags cost? Spent hours pouring over the information tracking each and every payment identifying where each and every payment came from and how it contributed towards the mortgage and created one hell of a sexy as spreadsheet tracking those payments identifying what was paid against what should have been paid, creating but for scenarios and so forth. I even managed to get a bank with an alliterated name beginning with the letter B, to produce bank statements from archives from beyond their archive! To which can I just say… that guy what a legend!!! Sure as hell I was convinced I had demonstrated that the sum total of Partner B’s contribution was less than £300 at the point of their bankruptcy and it is only over the course of my hardships, my endeavours, that the interest had only accrued and no one else’s. It’s not like the Man was paying my mortgage for me during this time, hell they didn’t even have the decency to wipe off half the loan, or resolve the other accounts (evidence is lacking due to timescales involved). But they are happy to capitalise on my efforts. Who was the one dealing with the nasties during that time? Yep me! So to ask for half the sale was just insulting, but in their defence they did come with a revised proposal, but now we’re at a stalemate.

If the wound wasn’t painful enough… the Man requested a copy of the redemption certificate, which would only become binding if ALL parties signed it. The mortgage company advised that they needed the “delinking” instrument signing as well. So, whilst discussing the needs and expectations of the Man chasing the documents requested by the Man, the Man was also talking to Partner B and advised them subsequently NOT TO SIGN ANYTHING!!! Meaning I now need a Court Order to enforce the sale… how much does one of those cost? I don’t know but LOTS is probably a good starting point.

And now I get to the even harder part, the part I write with reluctance… how can any of this be equitable? Now, I've read a few Law books in my time and Trusts, and whilst not my favourite subject I recall some key parts, for instance I recall that in equity intention is key, and whilst we are “jointly and severally liable” legally, the intentions of the Parties should also be construed when making an equitable determination. Equity will also take into consideration other factors – I don’t know, like £30,000 loans? And yet why is everyone averse to pushing this matter when I have said go forth, do what you must, it is beyond me, don't you want the fees? My current solicitor (or one of their colleagues) told me to go and plea to the Man face-to-face, but this is just at odds with everything I stand for, not to mention I’m not as empowered as a qualified lawyer who could argue my case with certainty - not to mention Partner B was a very gregarious person, popular with their colleagues and easily identifiable by their outlandish dress sense, penchant for glasses that make Dame Edna Everage blush and weird and wacky hair styles, they are a popular person within the organisation - so another argument perhaps should be, can the Man really be impartial in this case? Besides I'm from the Norfffff why should I have to go to Brighton to deal with this? (Yeah they keep shifting the office dealing with it) they have offices in the Norfff why can't we deal with this on my turf?

I acknowledge she contributed something but due to her behaviour her contributions have become worthless, not to mention let's consider the hardships she has caused me, the money she has cost me, but the Man doesn’t see this, apparently it’s immaterial whether Partner B went bankrupt now or yesteryear, and it’s immaterial as to whether at the point Partner B went bankrupt the house was in masses of negative equity or riding the property bubble gravy train – they are entitled to Partner B’s interest and are entitled to capitalise on my efforts... 2014 mate... what about 2014 when there was no equity?!?! You didn’t’ seem so keen to capitalise back then? And the salt in the proverbial wound, it doesn't matter one iota how much of Partner B’s debt I inherited the moment that their petition was heard in the court, they were bankrupt so there!

I’ve asked the Man to also consider the loan that I inherited – the other debts I’m happy to write off because they were dealt with a long time ago. But each month when I get a statement I am reminded that the Mortgage and the Loan was taken out by myself and Partner B. For the next 13 years I will be serving that loan… and that interest rate, once it is finally delinked, will hike up to nearly 13%!!! Remember this was £30k!!! How can me having to pay a further £4,000 be just, right or equitable? Especially as the only person this in turn benefits is Partner B (or more likely their Creditors) who I wouldn’t urinate on if they randomly and spontaneously combusted in front of me and I'd drank more than my bladders capacity in high urination inducing beverages, though it would give me great pleasure to point out “the police told me I had to stay away.”

No this isn’t a queue to get you to write “joint and severally liable” though I just heard at least one person say that… naturally when buying and selling property you have to engage a solicitor, but what kind of solicitor do you seek on a matter like this? Property and conveyancing? Insolvency? Dispute Resolution? Matrimonial or someone clued up on Trusts? Because I can tell you this, your typical high street solicitor is out of their depth, that or I am having an individually bad experience. I’m on here requesting in the first instance, public opinion, how is this equitable? Secondly... can anyone recommend a good Lawyer?

To date Partner B’s bankruptcy has cost me £29,010.11, at several points it has nearly cost me my house and early on nearly my career, I live with Partner B's decision to go Bankrupt every day, I go home to a house in an area which I have no affiliation with. In the past I've lived on bread and ramen noodles, lost any sense of a social life for a long number of years and had all sorts of lodgers living with me just to bolster my income - including some neardowell’s who have stolen from me. I’ve had to work abroad and virtually always away and rarely get to stay in the property itself but I am unable to rent it out because matrimonial dispute, all this to serve the prospect of not going insolvent, not losing something I have fought so hard over and had to postpone the next steps of my life until this matter is resolved. Partner B went bankrupt, got married, had a kid, subsequently bought a new property with their new partner. They’re in the process of selling that property potentially making £60,000 profit if they sell at their requested value – I know this because this is publicly available information. Partner B is refusing to sign any paperwork on advice of the Man, the Man wants £4,000 from me meaning the actual cost that Partner B cost me will creep up to £34,000 and I apparently have to swallow this, accept this. Learn the lesson… “joint and severally”.

So £4,000 isn’t much I know, it’s principle but know this… according to representatives of the Man, it is against Human Rights… apparently… to judge examiners of bankrupts who have gone bankrupt themselves to be in conflict of interest, but if you’re in a bankruptcy sensitive profession you apparently don’t have the same Human Rights.

Now who wants to help me with this? If anyone knows a good, strong and passionate lawyer prepared to take on the Man please point me in the direction, I’ve paid a lot of money already and will continue to do so but in short I’m looking for a lawyer who can resolve:

• The Sale of Property 1;
• The Purchase of Property 2;
• Deal with the Official Receiver and acquire my interest at the best value attainable and at least get them to acknowledge the hardship they have caused me;
• Sue the crap out of Partner B (if possible – though not likely) – and if Partner B is reading this, you refusing to cooperate and your subsequent liaisons with the person managing this account has led me to do this;
• Perhaps drop a line to HSBC advising them that a mortgage taken out by Partner’s B new partner probably and more than likely did not declare the fact that Partner B whom they were married to at the time, was already named on a pre-existing mortgage and loan tied to that pre-existing mortgage and that failure to disclose such is tantamount to mortgage fraud.

Noting ,whilst considering the above, that even if the consensus is I should just pay the Man what they want, I still have to get a Court Order to enforce the sale because Partner B is sitting with their head up their postiere refusing to acknowledge they have any responsibilities in the world.

So, to all considering bankruptcy, there’s two sides and repercussions to each and every story… this is mine. Please go bankrupt responsibly and hopefully don’t screw over your current partner in the process of doing so.

Incidentally if you do go bankrupt just because you met someone new and want to elope (save from an abusive relationship) and start a new life and the bankruptcy is not mutually agreed, you’re a piece of excrement too!

coolcait

Principles

Pragmatism

Perspective

Point-scoring

Payback

Punishment




Which do you want to rule your life?

the_all_new_me

And this my esteemed readers is exactly why it's so easy for someone to go bankrupt in a partnership and let the other person pick up the pieces. Don't let point-scoring, payment and punishment rule your life! Turn the other cheek, move on!


Really?


9 years I've been stuck with that house, 9 years my life has been on hold. Waiting Patiently for the day that a valuation would come in that meant I didn't have to pay more for Partner B's bankruptcy. 9 years... what could I have accomplished in 9 years... well actually between you and me, I've done pretty well for myself, but if one thing I've learnt in those 9 years, principles are expensive things to have. But sweets, I am prepared to and able to invest in my principles.


So to answer your question... Principles!

the_all_new_me

But more importantly... family. The house I own is too small to start a family. The house was a starter house which eventually would!!!8217;ve been traded for a bigger house.

For almost a decade I haven!!!8217;t been able to contemplate having a family because the house is too small. I just want to move and start my life...

So another P... Peace of mind

coolcait

To pare and prune your post down to the points relevant to bankruptcy:

- your former partner was declared bankrupt in 2009

- you have a jointly owned property

- your former partner's half of the equity in that property formed part of the bankrupt estate

- if your ex hadn't gone bankrupt, and the jointly owned property was sold, she would have received a share of the equity

- in the current circumstances, the bankrupt estate will receive her share of the equity

the_all_new_me

Please define your agenda before commenting further because you are kinda sorta just a little pinch of, coming across as condescending on something I feel very personally about

silvercar

Wow! You've suffered considerably. Not only at the hands of your partner, but by the recession and by NR.

I suppose it doesn't help much to say that these "Together" mortgages from NR caused a lot of difficulties for a lot of people. (Though to be fair, a lot of people benefited by their generous lending criteria).

I've read, with the help of a magnifying glass, your story. A couple of things don't seem right. If others agree (I'm no expert) maybe you can query or make a complaint.

I thought that the OR had 3 years to deal with the marital home. If they fail to deal with it, it's interest should return to the bankrupt. So the home should have been sorted in 2014 or thereabouts. Query why this didn't happen!

I feel you were wrongly advised to pay the Together loan as well as the mortgage, your home is safe if you pay the mortgage. The whole point of a Together mortgage is that it is 2 parts, the mortgage on your home and the unsecured loan. The merits of paying the unsecured loan are unclear.

Looking back, handing the keys back on the home, so NR could have repossessed it, sold it off, while you saved your money and would have been free of the connection with your ex over this house may have been an option.

Going forward, as the house increases in value, there will be more equity. Go to court now to force a sale. Or hand the keys back and let NR sell it. Either way the selling costs will be swallowing up most of the equity, either way you will break the financial ties with your ex.

silvercar

The Sale of Property 1; go to court and get an order for sale
The Purchase of Property 2;standard purchase
Deal with the Official Receiver and acquire my interest at the best value attainable and at least get them to acknowledge the hardship they have caused me;They aren't in the business of acknowledging hardship. This is the price you pay for being involved with someone who then goes bankrupt. Not your choice, but a fallout. You can certainly argue that all the equity is your on the grounds that the OR failed to deal with it in a timely manner. If they had done so, there would have been no equity to share at the time. So all equity has occured in recent years and when you have been paying the mortgage, so the equity should be yours.
Sue the crap out of Partner B (if possible !!!8211; though not likely) !!!8211; and if Partner B is reading this, you refusing to cooperate and your subsequent liaisons with the person managing this account has led me to do this;
Perhaps drop a line to HSBC advising them that a mortgage taken out by Partner!!!8217;s B new partner probably and more than likely did not declare the fact that Partner B whom they were married to at the time, was already named on a pre-existing mortgage and loan tied to that pre-existing mortgage and that failure to disclose such is tantamount to mortgage fraud.No point suing someone with no money!
Even if you wanted to go down this route, sort everything else first. At least then you can quantify your losses. If you feel mortgage fraud has been committed, write yourself to the lender. I suspect the new partner may have got themselves a mortgage in their own name and hold the property as sole owner. not only because it is difficult for an ex-bankrupt to get a decent mortgage rate, but it also prevents an ex-partner (you) coming after the new home for a share of the equity. It would also mean that your ex doesn't need to declare they already have a property/ mortgage as they aren't on the deeds.

my comments in red.

Brock_and_Roll

With all due respect OP, I have just invested 20 minutes in reading this novel in order to try and provide some guidance. Alas I suspect many other useful people here wont bother due to its length and going off piste so much that the relevant facts are hard to glean.


The following will read as much as a story riddled with vendetta,



Well don't write it that way. We don't know you or your ex - we have no idea who is right or wrong and try to avoid making judgements



Where to start, all this began in 2009, a long time ago in a town not so far far away, I have to be careful what I write because the last time I posted anything about this situation I had the police at my door so apologies if I come across as aloof somewhat but I am here looking for advice. I know involved parties will be reading this as they were responsible for identifying the inference back in 2009 banged in a complaint and I was subsequently reprimanded, I know they frequent these forums, I know they will be reading this - hello to you all.

No names are mentioned in this account.



Well if the ex is reading this anyway, the last 114 words are a waste of effort.



In 2007 me and my then partner took out a Northern Rock Together Mortgage


A relevant point - joint mortgage taken out.


, that wonderfully infamous product that allowed you to consolidate all your joint outgoings into one easily managed payment !!!8211; or that!!!8217;s how it was sold to me, it also allowed us as first time buyers to put down the deposit on the property. It seemed the perfect product at the time, we were buying our matrimonial home, we were going to fill it with kids and live out the rest of our years blah blah blah you know the parties intentions, naturally that didn!!!8217;t happen as here I am.



Completely irrelevant - everyone here is well aware of NR Together mortgages

Still in 2007 the proceeds of the loan were also used to purchase a car and clear some debts belonging to Partner B and make contributions towards their Post Graduate studies loan. I did indeed benefit from the loan as well, so we do not contest the responsibility but it!!!8217;s only fair that we are equally and jointly responsible.


What you did with the money from the loan is irrelevant.


Early in 2009 Partner B (me being Partner A) decided to part ways in the relationship somewhat unexpectedly, ceased all contributions towards the property, as well as ceased contributions to the loan taken out with the mortgage, the joint bank account which was nearly £4,000 in arrears by the time they had done what they needed to - funny story this, I wasn't able to freeze the account without their joint approval, but damn the other party managed to get some serious dosh out of it before their bankruptcy! Oh yeah and a credit card with about £5,000 on it. Coupled with the Loan against the Mortgage (a total of £30,000) it became apparent Partner B was going to cause some serious damage to my cash flow. I was so desperate at one point what went from £20k went down to !!!8220;I!!!8217;ll take the car!!!8221; !!!8211; this never happened.



This paragraph could be shortened to "partner left me unexpectedly and stopped making contributions towards debts and household

Discussions were held which became so desperate I was prepared at one point to just accept the car in consideration of her, him or even it (I!!!8217;m more inclined to referring to Partner B as !!!8220;It!!!8221; for the purposes of this but that!!!8217;s unfair to clowns) for that matter, leaving. Discussions about bankruptcy were had but I'm in a bankruptcy sensitive profession so it was never an option, and they... well let's just say they work (sorry worked perhaps still work) for the organisation that investigates the legitimacy of your bankruptcy and are often the trustees in matters of dealing with your assets that by law they are entitled to recover in order to satisfy your creditors, they are the organisation that will determine the length of any BRO you may have. But rather than name them we will call them "The Man"< queue pantomime music> just so we can avoid inferences - oh wait there?!?! erm whatever.



Hidden in this paragraph which descends into nonsense by the end is relevant information - that you work in a bankruptcy sensitive profession.



I digress... later in 2009 Partner B petitioned for bankruptcy..


Relevant


. you see in that moment I discovered my former life partner was going bankrupt, I was naturally upset and rang them up to politely to discuss the situation and how it was mightly unfair that they would do this to someone that they once loved and wanted to spend eternity with, though for one reason or another it was not as polite as I may have wished it to have been.


Completely Irrelevant


Within 24 hours the police were on the doorstep telling me that if I attempt to contact them again I would be arrested for harassment. I!!!8217;m hoping 9 years is sufficiently long enough to mean that harassment order has expired, if not read this whilst you can before it gets pulled.



Not sure we want to get involved in all this bunny boiling and it is irrelevant to the financial questions being posed.

In that instant Partner B went bankrupt, I inherited all those joint responsibilities and the extent of any sympathy I got from those creditors was !!!8220;joint and severally liable!!!8221;. Naturally needing somewhere to live I had to service the mortgage, serving the mortgage meant I had to serve the loan too. But then the bank wasn!!!8217;t happy about the joint account and neither were the credit card company and I can tell you this for free, no matter how well you run those accounts the moment one party goes bankrupt, those companies all of a sudden get a yearning for hearing your voice, preferably squirming, preferably begging for them to be lenient but as long as in the end you!!!8217;re paying what they consider due to them!



So I think what you are trying to say here is that in order to avoid default, you continued to meet all YOUR LEGAL obligations towards the mortgage and loan. Again everyone here is fully au fait with the implications of joint and several liability.


Now this is VERY relevant - at the point of their bankruptcy a sum total of £580 had been paid off against the mortgage !!!8211; bloody interest GRRRRR!!!! A mere £270 had been paid off against the loan. Remember these sums because these change drastically later on.



Would be easier simply to state that effectively the loan and mortgage were at almost 100% of their initial values.

Northern Rock were of little assistance during the immediate term, they registered the property as subject to a matrimonial dispute meaning nothing could be done !!!8211; porting, changing the names, renting, selling the lot, without the approval of the other party. When having intermediaries discuss matters with the other party all we got was !!!8220;it!!!8217;s the Official Receivers now!!!8221;. Even if it meant just signing a piece of paper!!!8230; !!!8220;it was the Official Receiver!!!8217;s now!!!8221;. Northern Rock did an affordability test and naturally rejected any preliminary application to become sole named mortgagee. Recounting this tale to them time after time became as easy as pressing play on a tape recorder !!!8211; or whatever media software you use on your phone.



Hidden in here is another piece of relevant information - that you did not meet the income requirements to take the mortgage into sole name

Now some of you older lot out there will remember the dark days of 2009 as being the height of the recession, what dark times it was, imagine how much darker it became when in 2009 your employer invoked a 3 day working week!!! Hard choices were made and I managed to go self-employed (fortunately for me) but I wasn!!!8217;t always so fortunate to have lucrative contracts, for 3 years I struggled with the mortgage, at a number of points more was owed against the mortgage and the loan than was originally taken out. At one point the arrears racked up to nearly £9,000.00, and the Mortgage company naturally were not happy with this so sought repossession, Christmas 2012 I thought I was going to lose the house. To this end I have to thank Northern Rock !!!8211; NRAM !!!8211; Landmark Mortgages for actually being patient with me during those times. Though by 2012 I would like to point out my interest was no longer fixed and the mortgage hit a hefty high of 6.18% and there was nothing I could do to port it.



This could be simplified to - post financial crash I went self employed and struggled financially - arrears and charges built up.

2013 I began to turn this around, though it meant doing a !!!! Whittington and working in London, within a year I had made a huge dent in the arrears and things were looking up. By 2014 I was able to discuss with the Man about taking over their interest. Discussions were had, things were progressing, I was on first name terms with an agent of !!!8220;the Man!!!8221;, the house was still suffering from negative equity so there was little interest for !!!8220;the Man!!!8221; to retain his. At one point it was even discussed that for the princely sum of £211 the interest would be resolved. House was valued, valuation was sent in, Mortgage statements were sent and statements outlining the share of interest Partner B had in the property. For some reason, unexplained!!!8230; communications went dead with !!!8220;the Man.!!!8221; Legal advice was sought and in order to get the ball rolling the solicitor approached Partner B and said !!!8220;If Partner A takes on the full responsibility of the loan, will you comply with all requests made of you.!!!8221; It turns our Partner B never responded. The subsequent advice was !!!8220;sell the property, and everything will come out in the wash.!!!8221;



Hidden in all this is another key fact - the house was in negative equity.

And that my friends (if you are still with me) is where I am now!!!8230;



I seriously doubt it!!

2018, after managing the Mortgage and Loan well and making significant overpayments to achieve as much equity as I can, the days of screening calls from the mortgage company are long gone. A quick !!!8220;out of interest!!!8221; valuation at the start of the year promised a good return!!!8230; the house FINALLY had some (not much but some!) increase in value, of course serving the mortgage and the loan all by myself had contributed to the greater part of any potential proceeds from the sale but finally after 9 years the house was worth marginally more (£8,500 more to be precise, so if you!!!8217;re in the South please feel blessed that you don!!!8217;t have to deal with the trials and tribulations of being a Northern Monkey with property that can actually go DOWN in value and not recover for best part of a decade). Of course I always knew that it was going to be hard to deal with the ex, I also knew that on my title deeds was a restriction still but surely my discussions with the Man in 2014 were going to be useful.



Great news, some positive equity and a chance to be rid of NR...

NOPE, THEY WERE NOT!!! Initially the Man requested half of the sale proceeds, this was negotiated down using the !!!8220;equitable determination!!!8221; argument, though between you the reader and me the idea of paying a single penny towards Partner B!!!8217;s bankruptcy fills me with anger and dread and frustration and I can!!!8217;t help but feel like I!!!8217;ve kind of lost. We!!!8217;re currently sat at just short of £4,000 and I know what many of you will be saying!!!8230; but it!!!8217;s such a small price to pay!!!8230; Price means nothing when it comes to principle and I!!!8217;m a man of principle, and whilst principles will get me killed, I really don!!!8217;t care... that!!!8217;s principle! I!!!8217;m at a point where I have spent weeks gathering of information, collation of evidence, I!!!8217;ve lost days at work, spent hours in the bank asking to produce statements from 2007 onwards, having to pay monies to get copies of mortgage statements, spent hundreds on photocopying and stationary etc !!!8211; do you know how much tags cost? Spent hours pouring over the information tracking each and every payment identifying where each and every payment came from and how it contributed towards the mortgage and created one hell of a sexy as spreadsheet tracking those payments identifying what was paid against what should have been paid, creating but for scenarios and so forth. I even managed to get a bank with an alliterated name beginning with the letter B, to produce bank statements from archives from beyond their archive! To which can I just say!!!8230; that guy what a legend!!! Sure as hell I was convinced I had demonstrated that the sum total of Partner B!!!8217;s contribution was less than £300 at the point of their bankruptcy and it is only over the course of my hardships, my endeavours, that the interest had only accrued and no one else!!!8217;s. It!!!8217;s not like the Man was paying my mortgage for me during this time, hell they didn!!!8217;t even have the decency to wipe off half the loan, or resolve the other accounts (evidence is lacking due to timescales involved). But they are happy to capitalise on my efforts. Who was the one dealing with the nasties during that time? Yep me! So to ask for half the sale was just insulting, but in their defence they did come with a revised proposal, but now we!!!8217;re at a stalemate.



I have to say I have lost the will to live now......The simple fact here is that Ex is playing hardball wanting "their share" which legally they may be entitled to.

If the wound wasn!!!8217;t painful enough!!!8230; the Man requested a copy of the redemption certificate, which would only become binding if ALL parties signed it. The mortgage company advised that they needed the !!!8220;delinking!!!8221; instrument signing as well. So, whilst discussing the needs and expectations of the Man chasing the documents requested by the Man, the Man was also talking to Partner B and advised them subsequently NOT TO SIGN ANYTHING!!! Meaning I now need a Court Order to enforce the sale!!!8230; how much does one of those cost? I don!!!8217;t know but LOTS is probably a good starting point.



Whatever you do, do not get the lawyers involved - I know from bitter experience that they will play a game of tennis here between both sides until the money has run out on both sides.

And now I get to the even harder part, the part I write with reluctance!!!8230; how can any of this be equitable? Now, I've read a few Law books in my time and Trusts, and whilst not my favourite subject I recall some key parts, for instance I recall that in equity intention is key, and whilst we are !!!8220;jointly and severally liable!!!8221; legally, the intentions of the Parties should also be construed when making an equitable determination. Equity will also take into consideration other factors !!!8211; I don!!!8217;t know, like £30,000 loans? And yet why is everyone averse to pushing this matter when I have said go forth, do what you must, it is beyond me, don't you want the fees? My current solicitor (or one of their colleagues) told me to go and plea to the Man face-to-face, but this is just at odds with everything I stand for, not to mention I!!!8217;m not as empowered as a qualified lawyer who could argue my case with certainty - not to mention Partner B was a very gregarious person, popular with their colleagues and easily identifiable by their outlandish dress sense, penchant for glasses that make Dame Edna Everage blush and weird and wacky hair styles, they are a popular person within the organisation - so another argument perhaps should be, can the Man really be impartial in this case? Besides I'm from the Norfffff why should I have to go to Brighton to deal with this? (Yeah they keep shifting the office dealing with it) they have offices in the Norfff why can't we deal with this on my turf?



From my experience, if you can get your case in front of a judge you have a chance to make these arguments but it costs thousands to get there. Even if you win you get appeals with more costs and then the costs of getting enforcement. FYI I spent circa £80k in legal fees to recover £100k!

I acknowledge she contributed something but due to her behaviour her contributions have become worthless, not to mention let's consider the hardships she has caused me, the money she has cost me, but the Man doesn!!!8217;t see this, apparently it!!!8217;s immaterial whether Partner B went bankrupt now or yesteryear, and it!!!8217;s immaterial as to whether at the point Partner B went bankrupt the house was in masses of negative equity or riding the property bubble gravy train !!!8211; they are entitled to Partner B!!!8217;s interest and are entitled to capitalise on my efforts... 2014 mate... what about 2014 when there was no equity?!?! You didn!!!8217;t!!!8217; seem so keen to capitalise back then? And the salt in the proverbial wound, it doesn't matter one iota how much of Partner B!!!8217;s debt I inherited the moment that their petition was heard in the court, they were bankrupt so there!



Repeating yourself here

I!!!8217;ve asked the Man to also consider the loan that I inherited !!!8211; the other debts I!!!8217;m happy to write off because they were dealt with a long time ago. But each month when I get a statement I am reminded that the Mortgage and the Loan was taken out by myself and Partner B. For the next 13 years I will be serving that loan!!!8230; and that interest rate, once it is finally delinked, will hike up to nearly 13%!!! Remember this was £30k!!! How can me having to pay a further £4,000 be just, right or equitable? Especially as the only person this in turn benefits is Partner B (or more likely their Creditors) who I wouldn!!!8217;t urinate on if they randomly and spontaneously combusted in front of me and I'd drank more than my bladders capacity in high urination inducing beverages, though it would give me great pleasure to point out !!!8220;the police told me I had to stay away.!!!8221;


Let go and move on. Do whatever it costs to get out of the mortgage and loan and then as each day goes by all this cr*p and its manifest unfairness will slowly recede into history instead of eating away at you each day.


No this isn!!!8217;t a queue to get you to write !!!8220;joint and severally liable!!!8221; though I just heard at least one person say that!!!8230; naturally when buying and selling property you have to engage a solicitor, but what kind of solicitor do you seek on a matter like this? Property and conveyancing? Insolvency? Dispute Resolution? Matrimonial or someone clued up on Trusts? Because I can tell you this, your typical high street solicitor is out of their depth, that or I am having an individually bad experience. I!!!8217;m on here requesting in the first instance, public opinion, how is this equitable? Secondly... can anyone recommend a good Lawyer?


Don't go down that route!


To date Partner B!!!8217;s bankruptcy has cost me £29,010.11, at several points it has nearly cost me my house and early on nearly my career, I live with Partner B's decision to go Bankrupt every day, I go home to a house in an area which I have no affiliation with. In the past I've lived on bread and ramen noodles, lost any sense of a social life for a long number of years and had all sorts of lodgers living with me just to bolster my income - including some neardowell!!!8217;s who have stolen from me. I!!!8217;ve had to work abroad and virtually always away and rarely get to stay in the property itself but I am unable to rent it out because matrimonial dispute, all this to serve the prospect of not going insolvent, not losing something I have fought so hard over and had to postpone the next steps of my life until this matter is resolved. Partner B went bankrupt, got married, had a kid, subsequently bought a new property with their new partner. They!!!8217;re in the process of selling that property potentially making £60,000 profit if they sell at their requested value !!!8211; I know this because this is publicly available information. Partner B is refusing to sign any paperwork on advice of the Man, the Man wants £4,000 from me meaning the actual cost that Partner B cost me will creep up to £34,000 and I apparently have to swallow this, accept this. Learn the lesson!!!8230; !!!8220;joint and severally!!!8221;.

So £4,000 isn!!!8217;t much I know, it!!!8217;s principle but know this!!!8230; according to representatives of the Man, it is against Human Rights!!!8230; apparently!!!8230; to judge examiners of bankrupts who have gone bankrupt themselves to be in conflict of interest, but if you!!!8217;re in a bankruptcy sensitive profession you apparently don!!!8217;t have the same Human Rights.



Frankly after reading this, £4k sounds like the bargain of the century. Write and say that you only have £3k in savings and try and strike a deal.



Now who wants to help me with this? If anyone knows a good, strong and passionate lawyer prepared to take on the Man please point me in the direction, I!!!8217;ve paid a lot of money already and will continue to do so but in short I!!!8217;m looking for a lawyer who can resolve:

• The Sale of Property 1;
• The Purchase of Property 2;
• Deal with the Official Receiver and acquire my interest at the best value attainable and at least get them to acknowledge the hardship they have caused me;
• Sue the crap out of Partner B (if possible !!!8211; though not likely) !!!8211; and if Partner B is reading this, you refusing to cooperate and your subsequent liaisons with the person managing this account has led me to do this;
• Perhaps drop a line to HSBC advising them that a mortgage taken out by Partner!!!8217;s B new partner probably and more than likely did not declare the fact that Partner B whom they were married to at the time, was already named on a pre-existing mortgage and loan tied to that pre-existing mortgage and that failure to disclose such is tantamount to mortgage fraud.

The last bit definitely would not help



Noting ,whilst considering the above, that even if the consensus is I should just pay the Man what they want, I still have to get a Court Order to enforce the sale because Partner B is sitting with their head up their postiere refusing to acknowledge they have any responsibilities in the world.

So, to all considering bankruptcy, there!!!8217;s two sides and repercussions to each and every story!!!8230; this is mine. Please go bankrupt responsibly and hopefully don!!!8217;t screw over your current partner in the process of doing so.

Incidentally if you do go bankrupt just because you met someone new and want to elope (save from an abusive relationship) and start a new life and the bankruptcy is not mutually agreed, you!!!8217;re a piece of excrement too!


Please spare us from this moralising! Bankruptcy is a long established legal route for the insolvent to deal with their creditors and there are myriads of backgrounds to bankruptcies.

the_all_new_me

Cheers all, very insightful.


Apologies for the delay. Big thanks to Brock_and_Roll for their input, bigger thanks to silvercar for not scrutinising my prose.


Hoped throwing everything at the table people might gleam from it what they need.

The_Real_Cheddar_Bob

silvercar wrote: »

not only because it is difficult for an ex-bankrupt to get a decent mortgage rate,

really? 1.5% sounds like a huge penalty i'm paying as an ex-bankrupt......