Grounds for constructive dismissal

Smodlet

pandora205 wrote: »

When you say you work for an LA do you mean a Local Authority, as this doesn't sound like it? In my experience, appraisals are part of the corporate protocols and tracked across all employees with prompts to complete on time, etc. You would also be entitled to a display screen assessment to check your working environment.

I assumed LA meant Local Authority (further assume we all did) If this is not the case, things might be considerably more difficult. OP, if you are working for a Letting Agent, I suggest you look for another job.

nicechap

Fanstown_girl wrote: »

I am the supervisor so I am senior to the other members of the team. My JD says I am responsible for supervising the team and rostering enough staff to cover our 7 days a week opening hours. This is impossible now that I can't call in casual staff to cover gaps in staffing, sickness or holidays, I can't even view the holiday list.

With regards to the new desk, the corridor leads from the front line to the rest of the building. The building is over 200 years old so the corridors are narrow and winding despite an attempt at modernisation. The location of my new desk is in a lightly wider than normal part (maybe 6 foot or slightly less) It is immediately behind the wall to the front line in a space previously occupied by a shredder and a filing cabinet squashed in between a wall and the door. It's too dark to see properly but the desk lamp she has brought in is too bright and causes exaggerated glare and shadows. The normal desks don't fit so she has found an old, small one.

Fanstown_girl wrote: »

No appraisals. we had a meeting where she said we need to work together and communication is the key. She never tells me what her plans are, I tend to hear about them from other members of the team or e mails. She sends hundreds of e mails. I took two days on for annual leave and when I got back it took me all day to action the 90 odd e mails she had sent me while I was off. I'm going to have literally thousands when I go back after my sick leave.

Please don't think I am workshy or lazy. I love my job and my appraisals before she started were excellent.

Fanstown_girl wrote: »

I am in a union, but they are inclined to be invisible when there is an issue and don't stand up to management.
I sent her an e mail stating that was unhappy at losing all my responsibilities and having my role eroded and she replied saying she wasn't doing that and that we need to work together and communication is the key. The she shuts me out and doesn't tell me anything.

Which is it? Too many emails or not being communicated with?

You appear to be happy to lodge your concern by email rather than a chat. Maybe your boss is communicating with you the way you appear to prefer?

Maybe your new boss is a bit more of a control freak than your previous one, but if you're being paid the same for doing less, that sounds like a result to me. Is ostentatious status that important to you?

2e0arr

I attended an industrial tribunal last year in which a pal was giving evidence. i was in the court as an observer. The employers stated that the employee had not presented a "last straw " argument . The last straw which broke his back was not presented. The tribunal judges said that the employee could not quote an incompetant management and structure as a reason to leave. I have the impression that the failure rate of constructive dismissal is 99.999%. Do not leave put up with their excrement !!!! and let them prove you deserve to be sacked. Keep an accurate set of notes. when at work call your home and or another mobile and leave voice messages of events that happen. So you have accurate notes of what has happened and how it made you feel

Fanstown_girl

Sorry I didn't mean to be confusing, I do work for a Local Authority. We do have annual appraisals but they have not been due since the new manager started.

The e mail I sent about my concerns was after I had raised them verbally as I wanted an audit trail of the conversation.

There are too many e mails and at the same time too little communication. She talks about working together and communicating then I hear from someone else in the team that we're not allowed to eat our lunch where we've always done so or confidential documents aren't to be shredded any more.

I guess my status is important to me. I pride myself on being a good supervisor and that's all been taken away I can't begin to describe how humiliated I feel and how much I am dreading going back.

FBaby

You need to start taking control of the control you do have.
Step 1: write an email, say that you are writing to confirm that you are due back from sick leave on day X and look forward to rejoining the team and taking on your duties.
Step 2: give it a week, you never know, things could have happened during your absence. Work the best you can, keep your head down, don't rise to any frustration. You know the situation, so accept it as it is, focus on your future.
Step 3: Say to her, in a very pleasant matter that you'd like to meet with her to discuss your issues. Prepare the meeting. Write down a list of what you used to do and don't anymore and ask her pleasantly if she could explain why. Write your strengths and what you think are you weaknesses. Ask her if she agrees and how she will support you. Bring up the issues, with specific dates and events, when you felt you were pushed away and ask her what her reasons were. Be prepared to listen because she might have some valid points. Agree on some actions. Confirm actions on an email.
Step 4: If the meeting went ok with some actions, ask to meet again in a month to review all actions. Record everything.
Step 5: Assuming things are not better, and you believe she continues to treat you unfairly, record every event and how you tried to resolve them. When it gets to the point that you feel it is going nowhere, raise a grievance. Make sure you take every emotional bit out of the grievance. Instead, read the policy on grievances and bullying, and use the same language to illustrate how her behaviour is breaching the policy. This is VERY important.
Step 6: Wait for the response, meeting with HR etc... and see how it goes. Be prepared to listen and negotiate if appropriate, and give a chance to see if things have changed.

If things haven't improved, raised another grievance and start again.

Unfortunately, these are the steps you will have to go through before a court will even start to consider that you have a case. The onus will be on you to prove that you've tried absolutely everything, following the policy and that the organisation has failed you by NOT following their own policies. You will have to evidence absolutely everything you've done over time. Over time being quite a bit of time, ie. enough to give them a chance to make changes.

As you can see, all this is likely to be extremely stressful, and that's to even get to the point of considering if court is really an option. So you do need to decide whether it is all worth it and or whether you might be better off just looking for another role within the LA (which might be something you could be asked in court anyway).

Dox

Fanstown_girl wrote: »

Sorry I didn't mean to be confusing, I do work for a Local Authority. We do have annual appraisals but they have not been due since the new manager started.

The e mail I sent about my concerns was after I had raised them verbally as I wanted an audit trail of the conversation.

There are too many e mails and at the same time too little communication. She talks about working together and communicating then I hear from someone else in the team that we're not allowed to eat our lunch where we've always done so or confidential documents aren't to be shredded any more.

I guess my status is important to me. I pride myself on being a good supervisor and that's all been taken away I can't begin to describe how humiliated I feel and how much I am dreading going back.

If you're recovering from surgery you aren't going to feel at your best - and brooding on this certainly isn't going to help a speedy recovery. It will all be building up in your mind and becomingly an impossible mountain....many of us have been there too.

If she's so keen on communication, ask her for a face to face meeting when you return and tell her how you feel. Take a note with you of what you want to say and then try to deliver the message with the minimum emotion you can manage. Try to agree a course of action going forward, be it how/when to communicate, desk location, supervision or whatever so both of you are entirely clear(!) what is expected. Follow up with an e-mail summarising your understanding and ask her to confirm, or come back to you if there are any areas where she disagrees.

Much easier said than done, but it has to be worth a go, surely?

aife

scd3scd4 wrote: »

That's not my experience after 28 years a member.

Then you're lucky. Your reply suggests you doubt what the OP is saying. A bit like saying your boss is lovely so all these other people complaining must be making it up.
Sadly the British trade union movement has become progressively weaker over the past thirty years ago.
The reasons are complicated - anti -union laws (brought in by Thatcher but left untouched by 'new' labour... ) , fear and insecurity amongst workers , a preoccupation with facile politicking , and in some areas m my own employer included , an over representation of managerial staff and an ensuing cosy relationship between reps and management

aife

2e0arr wrote: »

I attended an industrial tribunal last year in which a pal was giving evidence. i was in the court as an observer. The employers stated that the employee had not presented a "last straw " argument . The last straw which broke his back was not presented. The tribunal judges said that the employee could not quote an incompetant management and structure as a reason to leave. I have the impression that the failure rate of constructive dismissal is 99.999%. Do not leave put up with their excrement !!!! and let them prove you deserve to be sacked. Keep an accurate set of notes. when at work call your home and or another mobile and leave voice messages of events that happen. So you have accurate notes of what has happened and how it made you feel

Agree with this .
I would add - resist the temptation to try and fix any problems that arise from her changes , i.e. staff cover. If she wants to take responsibility from you , let her have it...
It's possible she's just trying to make an impression and assert her authority , and that she'll calm down but make sure you cover yourself and try and make sure conversations with her are on the record as far as possible.
Are there other people of your grade under her ? Have they had the same treatment ?

aife

pandora205 wrote: »

When you say you work for an LA do you mean a Local Authority, as this doesn't sound like it? In my experience, appraisals are part of the corporate protocols and tracked across all employees with prompts to complete on time, etc. You would also be entitled to a display screen assessment to check your working environment.

I work for the NHS where annual appraisals are supposed to be mandatory / a priority , I haven't had one for five years. Mainly because my Trust struggles to keep managers longer than a year - either they're so incompetent that even the fools upstairs can't ignore it , or if they're halfway decent they leave

eamon

I suspect that the new line manager is one of those that "communicates" by email, doesn't value your experience, expertise and more importantly you! Its also likely that they have the tacit approval of senior management in this. As others have said your options are limited, read all the HR policies (re equality, harassment & bullying), forward all emails that are relevant to your personal address (when this is done delete the action and empty the thrash can, Management are sneaky and will try to interrogate the email system, keep on doing this until the case is resolved). Find your most recent job description that you agreed upon and work to that. Doing that action neutralises most toxic managers in their steps, but can be easily overcome. If the local union rep isn't able to help then go up the chain.

Once you have enough evidence and with your Unions help raise a greivance. Note that few people win against their line manager, senior management usually close ranks. The greivance may solve your issues. But I caution you that this is an incredibly stressful process and you need to be mentally tough to last the journey. Going legal is your last resort and CD isn't one of then. Previous posters in other threads i.e. Sangie & SarEl always said that CD is a bad choice and 99% of the time impossible to prove let alone win in a court.

Lastly good luck.