MSE News: Rail penalty fare appeals body to consider 'mitigating' circumstances 6 April 2018 at 3:45PM in Public transport & cycling 5 replies 2.7K views

Former_MSE_Callum

Passengers who are given a penalty fare despite having a genuine reason for not having a valid train ticket will now be able to go to an extra stage of appeal where 'mitigating circumstances' will be considered, the Government has announced...

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'Rail penalty fare appeals body to consider 'mitigating' circumstances'

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dekaspace

Heres whats happened to me in past, mugged and had ticket in wallet stolen transport police wrote a note on headered paper and stamped it saying to get us on free (yes I know they can't force it) station staff agreed, let me through got on train and guard started a shouting match with me talking about people who skip fares, demanded I show him the contents of my bag to prove I didn't have my wallet/spare bank card demanded id to prove I was who I claim.


Another time my train was late so didn't stop at my station (to be "fair" it was a local station so small that even normally theres 1-3 passengers getting on at that stop) so I had to get the next train a hour later and had no ticket office to explain got on and was accused of lying, sleeping in etc and charged full amount whilst made to stand and loudly spoken to as a "fare dodger"


3rd time was same station as 2nd only a few weeks later, same situation but this time didn't have an ticket before boarding and no facilities to get one, it was so packed people were so squashed in I was squashed against window, ticket guard did come round but didn't notice then inspector came round when it got a little quieter, sat down didn't even give me face contact and went "tickets please" I asked for the ticket and he just kept speaking down to me making me stutter and get confused then said I was a fare dodger and I was confused as I was lying, again made to stand and whilst he said to the other passengers "this is a fare dodger, this is what happens when you attempt to dodge a fare"


Bear in mind im autistic and freak out in crowded situations making my stutter worse, disgusting.


So a £9 fare became £60 baring in mind I was on jobseekers at the time!

glider3560

The TOCs are already getting wise to new penalty fare rules ... by making up their own "penalties".

Several are now offering out of court settlements under the guise of "administrative penalties". These are basically bribes to stop the case going to court. They aren't regulated, and there is no route of appeal (except going to court and facing a criminal charge before paying).

Art_Vandelay_2

So it says the 'system will treat you fairly' with regards to penalty fares?I think plenty of people would indicate otherwise, especially if you have ever used Oyster:

Let's say a passenger uses paper tickets: the train company can prove you either have a ticket on your person, or you don't, fair enough.

Let's say a passenger uses an Oyster card: the train company can simply 'claim' that the Oyster card is not valid, and apparently is not required to prove anything. They simply hit the passenger with the penalty fare and inform them it's up to them to provide proof that they tapped in correctly and consistently. CCTV will not be accepted as evidence on this point.
Notice that the burden of proof is entirely reversed. I personally know a few people who have been hit with penalties in this manner, actually one of the staff at my local train station said in an unguarded moment, "oh yeah it happens all the time!"
Presumably the only way to 'prove' your oyster card is tapped in correctly is to obtain statistics from the ticket barriers - via a court order?!

martindow

Art_Vandelay wrote: »

Presumably the only way to 'prove' your oyster card is tapped in correctly is to obtain statistics from the ticket barriers - via a court order?!

If it was tapped in correctly presumably there would be no problem in the first place.

Can you pay £10 and ask for all the data they hold on you with a subject access request? I imagine it would be reams of paper for anyone travelling regularly.

glider3560

martindow wrote: »

If it was tapped in correctly presumably there would be no problem in the first place.

Can you pay £10 and ask for all the data they hold on you with a subject access request? I imagine it would be reams of paper for anyone travelling regularly.

You can get your last eight weeks history for free online on the TfL website. It includes every single touch in/out, route validation, out of station interchange, etc.

It used to be possible to get your last eight journeys on a printed receipt from a tube or Overground ticket office (and a few selected National Rail offices). That should still be possible if you get a member of staff who knows what they're doing (even though the underground offices have closed, the staff can still provide this, apparently).