Short-term/rolling contract, applying for unsecured £25k loan

Arleen

Your financial position is not unstable on paper, it's just unstable and weak. And I would not take a 25k loan when it seems quite possible you won't have the means to pay it, especially if the crowdfunding did not cover this from the start it suggests that the market you are chasing doesn't exist or is tiny. I mean, crowdfunding is nothing else but selling a product that you will build in the future, and if you can't sell it before it's made, it is very unlikely to change after you have produced it. A good product sells before it's made, it is that simple.

So I would return the loan, even if it actually gets approved, and find a way to sell it before you put any more money into it. Maybe find a publisher, maybe crowdfund, maybe something else - but if you can't sell it now, don't hope to be able to do it after dumping 25k onto it.

As for CIFAS markers, this is almost always only a concern when the loan goes wrong. When stating income you are expected to give what is your actual, not projected, income and if you know that the working situation is likely to change, this is something you should disclose too. They don't have to specifically ask about it, as I am sure that the ToS you signed state that, and if the loan goes wrong this will be investigated and may earn you a marker. Or may not, only bank and you know the exact details.

Is it worth the risk? I wouldn't say so, especially as if the product is in demand, you can sell it before you make it. So take your time trying to do that. Money is not an answer to "too busy", as you will have to be very busy to keep up with the repayments.

Nebulous2

Arleen wrote: »

And I would not take a 25k loan when it seems quite possible you won't have the means to pay it, especially if the crowdfunding did not cover this from the start it suggests that the market you are chasing doesn't exist or is tiny. I mean, crowdfunding is nothing else but selling a product that you will build in the future, and if you can't sell it before it's made, it is very unlikely to change after you have produced it. A good product sells before it's made, it is that simple.

I'm not sure I agree with this. There is an immediacy to most people's expectations now which trumps this. I'm a keen cyclist and my only real extravagance is cycling gear. I bought a set of bike lights on kickstarter in Autumn, for delivery in June. There was a 40% discount from a company with a track record in producing very innovative products ( See sense)

Generally though any cycling products I buy are because I want them now. Most lights I've bought have been when an existing set are at the end of their life or in the autumn when the nights are beginning to draw in and I realise that I'll soon need lights to cycle home from work.

So I think the two markets are very different. The planned, discounted market against the risk it wont be delivered is very different from the spontaneous buy because it has been shown to do what I want market. The crossover between the two will vary by market sector.

Arleen

Nebulous2 wrote: »

I'm not sure I agree with this. There is an immediacy to most people's expectations now which trumps this. I'm a keen cyclist and my only real extravagance is cycling gear. I bought a set of bike lights on kickstarter in Autumn, for delivery in June. There was a 40% discount from a company with a track record in producing very innovative products ( See sense)

Generally though any cycling products I buy are because I want them now. Most lights I've bought have been when an existing set are at the end of their life or in the autumn when the nights are beginning to draw in and I realise that I'll soon need lights to cycle home from work.

So I think the two markets are very different. The planned, discounted market against the risk it wont be delivered is very different from the spontaneous buy because it has been shown to do what I want market. The crossover between the two will vary by market sector.

Yup, bt then there will also be people willing to pre-pay for this stuff, and those are the ones who will finance launch of your product. I've been in business and around startups my whole life, and the succesful ones always sold product before producing anything, and most that went into heavy debt from the start rarely made it. Harsh reality.

poppasmurf_bewdley

Why are you going into what the trade calls Vanity Publishing?

Have you been turned down by many traditional publishers?

I ran my own publishing company for more than 20 years and l find the costs you are mentioning scarily high.

includemeout

I appreciate the concern and the caution that's being advised. I also think that any sense of presumption I have from the odd post can be explained by the lack of detail I've offered, but my only concern was about a potential CIFAS warning if it was felt I was exaggerating my income. Thanks for the clarity on that.

So the detail, if it helps at all... (if not, ready yourself for tl;dr):

I don't think my financial position is particularly weak. I have a c.14/hrs per week job that pays around £26k/pa, on a rolling contract for my own convenience as it's feasible that my business will demand more of my attention in the near future. Being held to a 3-month notice period doesn't appeal. The success of my business depends on the energy I'm willing to invest in it so that's where much of my energy is focused. I'm working on average an 85 hour week in total and so to focus on raising funds would be counter-productive - I'd consider it a short-term solution to a cash-flow problem when my business could settle the loan and be a long-term source of income. My business looks likely to provide at least £1500/pm income in the short-term (more in the long-term), and my wife has a secure job and is paid well. We live modestly with the exception that she buys a lot of Reisling and I buy a lot of photobooks and photographic prints, most of which hold their value or become long-term investments. The Reisling doesn't hold it's value because she drinks it.

I'm publishing a photobook of documentary topographical photography. This doesn't work in electronic format; photobook publishing is one of the areas of print publishing that's growing exponentially. My crowdfunding goals were reached when I had no intention of self-publishing but had engaged a publisher in Germany. The relationship with the publisher ended as they wanted to excerpt control over the editorial process and remove the contribution made by an academic, whose writing was to provide an introduction and some context to my photography. They felt the writing was too dry which was to miss the point of the whole endeavour. At the Frankfurt Book Fair last year I met other publishers who were keen but who didn't have printing slots until into the 2020s, or the quality of their printing process/paper stock wasn't up to scratch. So I chose to self-publish and now have a significant short-fall to address. The grant I received from an industrial museum and the crowdfunding paid for equipment and film stock - I use a large format 8x10 view camera which isn't cheap to run. The loan will pay for the commercial drum scanning, printing and other costs associated with publishing.

I could save of course but this has been a work in progress for a number of years and it's important to me to complete it and move on, particularly as anything I need to re-shoot needs to be done at a specific time of year for continuity, so I'd likely have to wait another year to publish. If it completely bombs I'll focus on my work and settle the loan in any case. I'll still value what I learnt in the process and also know that the finished book is what I wanted it to be rather than what a publishing house felt was saleable. I think it's pretty obvious then that the book's potential profitability isn't what motivates me.

The funds turned up in my account this morning. I only declared the £26k income but presumably they looked at my account history and my affordability score was high enough they were happy to lend a relatively large sum.

includemeout

poppasmurf_bewdley wrote: »

Why are you going into what the trade calls Vanity Publishing?

Have you been turned down by many traditional publishers?

I ran my own publishing company for more than 20 years and l find the costs you are mentioning scarily high.

Some call it vanity publishing, others appreciate being able to take more control over the quality of the process and the final product. It's very possible that my intervention and the eschewing of a publishing contract has made the book less saleable but I'm content to take that risk. I'm publishing this because I'm interested in the subject and I want to examine it thoroughly and thoughtfully, and I want the images to be seen printed as they should be. It would of course be nice if it pays for itself.

The costs are high because of the processes required and the quality of paper stock etc.