Tax refund too big!

Footslog

I was made redundant in Nov 2015. In the tax year 2016/17, I received two payments from my ex-employer for some deferred redundancy in April (about £9000) and for some shares in August (about £6000).
My ex-employer switched payroll firms during that year, so the £9000 in April was reported to HMRC (using their Real Time Information system) by payroll firm 1, and in August the 2nd firm reported £9000+£6000 as a cumulative payment, also using RTI.
Now HMRC say I'm due a tax refund on the total of £9000+£9000+£6000. I have phoned and written to them pointing out the error, and my ex-employer has also phoned them twice and given them the correct total. But HMRC are adamant the only way to correct this is for one of the payroll firms to reverse out one of the £9000 figures on RTI. But both firms insist they are duty-bound to report the figures they did, and my ex-employer supports that view.
I have no P60 or P45 for the tax year as I was not an employee.
I declined both HMRC's online refund and the cheque they subsequently sent me for the wrong refund amount (which has now expired).
I am trying to 'do the right thing' and getting nowhere. I would like my - much smaller - tax refund, but at the moment, it seems like I won't get anything at all.
Can anyone suggest a way out of this stand-off?

Dazed_and_confused

Have you received a calculation (P800?) and if so what entries does this have for your income from your old company?

Footslog

Hi Dazed and Confused,
My P800 shows two lines from my old company like this:

Income Income Tax
<My company's name> 9360.00 3210.66
<My company's name> 15669.17 5200.92
<Pension authority> 1600.00 R 3210.66

So I have already received a refund on the first payment via my small pension.

xylophone

But HMRC are adamant the only way to correct this is for one of the payroll firms to reverse out one of the £9000 figures on RTI.

Then it is for HMRC to tell whichever payroll firm they think is in error to do just that?

I'd suggest writing to your MP.

dori2o

[QUOTE=xylophone;74066702]Then it is for HMRC to tell whichever payroll firm they think is in error to do just that?

I'd suggest writing to your MP.[/QUOTE]

No it isnt.

Whilst the employer may use a payroll provider it is the employer who is ultimately responsible for the data submitted to HMRC.

Just as if you or I use an accountant to submit a tax return, it is you or I that are responsible for the information on the return.

Without having looked at the information myself I would suggest that the reason for this is either.

1) the employers paye reference number has changed during the tax year (can the OP confirm this. The number may be shown on the calculation. Its in the format 123/A12345).

If this is the case, despite the employee (OP) seeing no difference in their employment the HMRC system treats this as 2 seperate employments.

Therefore if this is whats happened then payroll 2 DO NOT need to include the first payment in their 'In this employment Year To Date' figures.

2) the PAYE reference has remained the same but the employee/payroll number has changed. This again would mean that the HMRC system treats this as 2 seperate employments. It has to do this as many people have more than 1 employment under different terms/conditions with the same employer, i. e, NHS staff who have their ordinary emoyment contract plus a bank shift contract.

Again payroll 2 would need to adjust the 'Year to Date' figures to represent ONLY what was paid under that particular payroll number

3) A P45 was issued after the first payment.

Therefore 'This employment' has ended and if any further payment is issued its classed as a 'new employment' even if its from the same company. Therefore each single period of employment should be treated seperately and the 'Year to Date' figures should represent only what was paid in those separate periods.

Can OP confirm if any of the above apply?


OP in cases where RTI information is incorrect and a Earlier Year Update (EYU) is required HMRC can provide you with a letter to give to the employer which gives instructions on how the details should be submitted and how the EYU should be made. Have you received this? Have you given it to the employer?

Alternatively, if you have spoken to the employer and they are refusing to deal with it write to HMRC and state that you are making a claim for Employer Error as they have submitted incorrect RTI information which is affecting your end of year tax calculation.

Footslog

Dori2o,

Many thanks for your response. To reply to your questions:

1. I haven't got any document with the employer's paye reference on it, so unfortunately I can't answer that.
2. The employee number is the same on each of the two payslips I received (one from each payroll).
3. I have no P45 or P60 for 2016/17.

I've received nothing from HMRC to give to my ex-employer regarding the Earlier Year Update. The only documents I have received are two identical P800s, a tax summary, and a refund cheque for the wrong amount.

My ex-employers were quite helpful to start with, but their attitude now is to say they have done what is necessary, and it's up to HMRC to sort it out.

...write to HMRC and state that you are making a claim for Employer Error as they have submitted incorrect RTI information which is affecting your end of year tax calculation.

This sounds like a good way of proceeding. Other than quoting Employer Error, do you know if there is any specific form of words (or form to complete) that I should use?

I've never had to deal with HMRC in this manner before, so I'm learning as I go along. As I'm sure others find, it's very difficult to argue your case when you don't know how their systems work.

antonic

I would suggest that you register for a Personal Tax Account : https://www.gov.uk/personal-tax-account

Then you can notify HMRC of your problems.

Footslog

Thanks antonic, I am registered.
Do you think they take more notice of online communications than phone calls/letters sent by post? I certainly got no reply to the letter I wrote asking them for help.

antonic

Not sure,

But what I would say is that they cant say they never got your letter in the first place !

Footslog wrote: »

Thanks antonic, I am registered.
Do you think they take more notice of online communications than phone calls/letters sent by post? I certainly got no reply to the letter I wrote asking them for help.

ashg1990

Well this is my first time in 3 years i have actual got a tax rebate
i requested this for repayment on 20/03/2018
next day it to pending ban repayment

today i check and its show this

Bank repayment:269.73Date:26 Mar 2018Payee:Youdoes this mean i will have 269.73 in my account on monday ?

xylophone

No it isnt.

Thank you for the clarification.

Nevertheless, the OP is not at fault and has done all he reasonably can to resolve matters, without much assistance from HMRC .

You have yourself suggested action which HMRC might have taken.

In the OP's situation, in the face of HMRC's constant passing of the buck, I would be inclined to refer the matter to my MP.