Central issue in politics not Brexit but Housing

NineDeuce

GreatApe wrote: »

Almost everybody is wrong about housing.
It seems no one in government or opposition or the civil service is smart enough to ask well what has happened to homeownership in the cheaper parts of the country?

If its purely down to price then surely the cheap areas would have seen no fall in home ownership?

The fact is even the north east where house prices are below build cost (and down about 30% in real terms over the decade) has seen homeownership fall

The reasons are simple

1. Mass migration. Import 5 million immigrants and renting needs to increase by 2 million homes to house them. This is clear by the fact that 75% if recent immigrants rent privately compared to closer to 15% for UK born.

2. Mass needless higher education delaying kids lives by 6 years meaning they have to wait longer to buy and hence have rent longer pushing up the rental numbers.

If you strip away the recent migrants and look at just the locals ownership is high and at near peak levels.


I'm not pro or anti migration I don't really care but if you want homeownership to increase you are going to stop migrants coming in because they with their 75% propensity to rent privately are boosting rental numbers and decreasing ownership numbers.

Of enough of this 'I am not anti immigration' nonsense. Of course you are.

For the record, you are just making stuff up.

Home ownership is at 33%, so two thirds of the entire population rent. Are you seriously suggesting that if only 15% of Brits rent privately, that around half of the population are in social housing?

Or do they live in kennels?

Non-UK citizens make up about 10% of the population. And yes, you can spout that this is equal to 5m all you like, but that figure hasnt happened overnight, so to suggest that the reason that house prices have increased around 10% year on year because of an increase in population that has never really gone above 1% per year is just ridiculous.

But of course, it doesnt sound ridiculous, because you have been told by UKIPpers amongst others without any real logic or facts that immigration is the root of all evil.

If it hadnt been for 'mass immigration', we would have had a lot less construction workers. This of course has been blamed for decreases in wages even though there is no statistical evidence to support this lie... but guess what.... we cant build enough houses!! So there still arent enough workers.. clearly....

Just think how bad it could have been if all of these workers had told the UK to stick it....

westernpromise

NineDeuce wrote: »

For the record, you are just making stuff up.

Home ownership is at 33%, so two thirds of the entire population rent.

Source please?

The English Housing Survey 2015 to 2016 says otherwise.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/658478/2015-16_EHS_Headline_Report.pdf
Of the estimated 22.8 million households in England, 14.3 million or 63% were owner occupiers.

Even if all of Scotland and Wales were renting we'd still be nowhere near 33% owner-occupation.

GreatApe

NineDeuce wrote: »

Of enough of this 'I am not anti immigration' nonsense. Of course you are.

For the record, you are just making stuff up.
Home ownership is at 33%, so two thirds of the entire population rent. Are you seriously suggesting that if only 15% of Brits rent privately, that around half of the population are in social housing?

Or do they live in kennels?

Non-UK citizens make up about 10% of the population. And yes, you can spout that this is equal to 5m all you like, but that figure hasnt happened overnight, so to suggest that the reason that house prices have increased around 10% year on year because of an increase in population that has never really gone above 1% per year is just ridiculous.

But of course, it doesnt sound ridiculous, because you have been told by UKIPpers amongst others without any real logic or facts that immigration is the root of all evil.

If it hadnt been for 'mass immigration', we would have had a lot less construction workers. This of course has been blamed for decreases in wages even though there is no statistical evidence to support this lie... but guess what.... we cant build enough houses!! So there still arent enough workers.. clearly....

Just think how bad it could have been if all of these workers had told the UK to stick it....

I am a first gen immigrant

While I am glad I was able to get in I do understand anti immigrant sentiment as a reasonable objection especially when from vastly different cultures. I wouldn't mind high migration so long as it was Atheist or Christian and with an IQ test of 100 or above. I think immigrants would have much more support if they were greatful but many are not greatful many are bitter and many are crazy socialists or communists that want to turn the UK into Cuba.

As for the rest of your post it nonsense.

Here is the actual data

Almost three-quarters of UK nationals lived in an owner occupied property (with or without a mortgage), compared to less than a third of foreign nationals. By contrast foreign nationals were much more likely to live in private rented accommodation (55 per cent) compared to UK nationals (14 per cent);

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/economicandsocialcharacteristicsoftheresidentpopulationofenglandandwalesbynationalityandcountryofbirthin2011/2013-07-12#housing


And its even worse for recent arrivals 75% privately rent.
More migrants equal more rentals
Like I said before I am not particularly pro or anti migration I am just pointing out the simple fact that migrants privately rent and if you import five million over a ten year period the private rental stock needs to expand by 2 million homes to house them.

cogito

NineDeuce wrote: »

Of enough of this 'I am not anti immigration' nonsense. Of course you are.

For the record, you are just making stuff up.

Home ownership is at 33%, so two thirds of the entire population rent. Are you seriously suggesting that if only 15% of Brits rent privately, that around half of the population are in social housing?

Or do they live in kennels?

Non-UK citizens make up about 10% of the population. And yes, you can spout that this is equal to 5m all you like, but that figure hasnt happened overnight, so to suggest that the reason that house prices have increased around 10% year on year because of an increase in population that has never really gone above 1% per year is just ridiculous.

But of course, it doesnt sound ridiculous, because you have been told by UKIPpers amongst others without any real logic or facts that immigration is the root of all evil.

If it hadnt been for 'mass immigration', we would have had a lot less construction workers. This of course has been blamed for decreases in wages even though there is no statistical evidence to support this lie... but guess what.... we cant build enough houses!! So there still arent enough workers.. clearly....

Just think how bad it could have been if all of these workers had told the UK to stick it....

As westernpromise pointed out, home ownership is 65%. So who's the one making stuff up?

GreatApe

The data has moved a bit because we continue to have high migration

2011 census

UK nationals 72.7% own
UK born 68.8% own
Non UK born 45.7% own

UK nationals (UK born and UK passport holder. Basically does not include kids of migrants who don't have uk nationality)

All data available from ONS

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/economicandsocialcharacteristicsoftheresidentpopulationofenglandandwalesbynationalityandcountryofbirthin2011/2013-07-12#housing

GreatApe

People also don't understand stats at all. Let's invent a model of a country
Let's say the poorest 20% are put in council homes.
Of the remaining population let's say all become homeowners but only after renting between ages of 18-28 while at university and a few years after that and buy at age 28

So excluding the poorest people in the country everyone is an owner.
Let's take life expectancy of 82 and assume same number of people in each age group

This would be a fantastic system all but the poorest 20% become homeowners the poorest 20% are in the council homes.

But what would the stats show?

It would say
20% social
12.5.% rental
67.5% owner occupier

But it only shows 67.5% ownership doesn't look so good.
The reason is most owners are also renters for some of their lives so the snapshot doesn't paint an accurate picture

This ideal model is close to what we have in the UK
About 17% in social and almost all the rest buy but are renters for 18% of the time and owners for 65% of the time.

We have a healthy functional housing market
The problem is we have politicians in power that do not understand statistics
And a media disinterested in dedicating the public

Thrugelmir

NineDeuce wrote: »

Except that unlimited migration from the EU was a net of less than 1m when Labour lost power,

When did the EU expand?

michaels

NineDeuce wrote: »

Except that unlimited migration from the EU was a net of less than 1m when Labour lost power, so less than 0.5% of the population. Or are you just one or Farage's merry band of lazy people who believe the minority are responsible for an institutional crisis of the entire country... again....

I must be well ignorant then, I had this understanding that more than 0.5% of London's current population were born outside the UK....

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/london-census-profile/

perhaps though you have some alternative facts?

Graham_Devon

westernpromise wrote: »

It's hilarious. Labour wrecks the global economy so that we get 10 years of emergency interest rates and asset prices duly rise - so Labour benefits, exactly as though they hadn't caused the entire problem. It's as though after hitting one iceberg the captain of the Titanic had steamed at full speed towards another one as though another collision would fix the first one.

If we needed evidence that state education produces morons and its public sector hero teachers are useless, it's all there in that story.

Wow, labour managed to wreck the global economy now?

New one on me!

Thrugelmir

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Wow, labour managed to wreck the global economy now?

New one on me!

RBS was hardly a small player in financial services.