Appeal lost and not given Popla code

Gutsygirl90

Hi All,

Need help please - Basically my ticket was issued back in Aug 17 I appealed and applied for Popla code last year when it all happened. Nothing every happened. Ticket was issued in SE Car Park by Indigo for not displaying a ticket.

I have recently received a letter in post NTK from Indigo I appealed again using the ONE SIZE FITS ALL template and I have received the below reply

Good morning,

Thank you for your recent online submission which we recognise as an internet template, please see attached the outcome of your appeal.

Please be aware that we have no recourse regarding the driver, under Railway Byelaw 14, the owner of the vehicle will be held liable.

To answer each of your points in turn:

1. The Penalty Notice was issued due to a breach of contract but the balance does not relate to cost incurred by this breach.
2. We are not able to provide this.
3. These are available to view on the website through which you appealed.

POPLA are no longer adjudicating in Penalty Notices issued under Railway Byelaw 14 and so we will not be issuing you a POPLA verification code.

We refer your comments regarding the processing of your data, which we are treating as a formal section 10 Notice (“the Notice”) under the Data Protection Act (“the Act”). Please accept this email as our formal acknowledgement and response to the Notice.

You have provided no justification for the Notice. The processing of your data is warranted.

In any event, section 10(1) of the Act does not apply in circumstances where Schedule 2, paragraphs 1 to 4 of the Act are met, accordingly, we are permitted to continue to process your data at this stage.

If this is not clear, we suggest you seek legal advice.

Kind regards,

PLEASE HELP

twhitehousescat

aug 17?

millions of posts regarding bylaws and how the right to prosicute ENDS AT 6 MONTHS

we are now at month 8

bet indigo n dont tell you that

financerulez

Ha - let me get this straight - they are moaning about a template appeal?! Their whole company is based on phoney template claims.

Did Indigo actually send this response or was it one of their minions?

Your reply is simple. You need only highlight this:

They have stated the Penalty Notice was issued for a breach of contract. Penalty Notices are normally referred to with reference to criminal law, as penalties are banned in contract law. (Beavis v ParkingEye does not rewrite contract law, only interprets that charges that are high can be non-penal for commercial reasons - penalties are still banned. Note that was a Parking Charge Notice not a Penalty Notice.) Either way, there is no Keeper liability in this alleged breach of contract, as POFA 2012 does not apply on byelaw-governed land. You could suggest they contact the driver, and stop bothering you as Keeper. Similarly their actual recourse of bringing a prosecution for a byelaw breach has now expired as stated above. Explain this to them, tell them to delete your data, and state any further contact will result in you bringing a claim for DPA violation and harassment.

If you haven't told them who the Driver is, and it sounds like you haven't, you've basically won.

financerulez

This has actually seriously p*ssed me off. Tone your letter angrily, use the above point, if you want to waste your own time as they can't really do anything, put stuff like this:

"Please be aware that we have no recourse regarding the driver, under Railway Byelaw 14, the owner of the vehicle will be held liable."

For an Owner to have any liability under these byelaws, a breach of the byelaws must be proven (and even then it states an Owner 'may' be liable.) Only a Magistrates' Court can enforce a byelaw breach as confirmed by the DfT. Are you a Magistrates' Court?

"1. The Penalty Notice was issued due to a breach of contract but the balance does not relate to costs incurred by this breach."

What is the balance for then? (Sounds like they want to try the ParkingEye route - the fact they call their own letter a PENALTY notice is so funny. I really hope they go all the way with this (they won't) and the judge berates them for this.)

"2. We are not able to provide this."

Well then in what world would you expect someone to hand over money. You want to claim a breach of contract has happened, without any contract? Please pay me the sum of £1,000,000 for the contract we definately agreed 5 years ago of which I also have no evidence of.

Gutsygirl90

Thank you all so much for your help.

Is someone able to draft a full response for me? Happy to do it but I do not understand all of the terminology and want to get this 100%.

I am happy to also send the letter which I received along with this email!

Gutsygirl90

Hi All,

Me again, I have drafted the below is it OK to send?


You stated the Penalty Notice was issued for a breach of contract. Penalty Notices are normally referred to with reference to criminal law, as penalties are banned in contract law. Either way, there is no Keeper liability in this alleged breach of contract, as POFA 2012 does not apply on byelaw-governed land.

In response to your points;

"Please be aware that we have no recourse regarding the driver, under Railway Byelaw 14, the owner of the vehicle will be held liable."

For an Owner to have any liability under these byelaws, a breach of the byelaws must be proven (and even then it states an Owner 'may' be liable.) Only a Magistrates' Court can enforce a byelaw breach as confirmed by the DfT. Are you a Magistrates' Court?

"1. The Penalty Notice was issued due to a breach of contract but the balance does not relate to costs incurred by this breach."

What is the balance for then?

"2. We are not able to provide this."

You want to claim a breach of contract has happened, without any contract?

I suggest you contact the driver, and stop harassing me as the Keeper.

Similarly your actual recourse of bringing a prosecution for a byelaw breach has now expired as this ticket was issued over 6 months ago.

Johno100

Please be aware that we have no recourse regarding the driver, under Railway Byelaw 14, the owner of the vehicle will be held liable.

And where do they think they are going to get that information from?

Ralph-y

you are perhaps over thinking this ........

there is nothing they can do as the 6 month time out for byelaws has passed ....

they just want to bamboozle you into paying .....

to understand this 'cowboy industry ' (Handard)

please watch the MP's debate

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

some of the comments fount there in ......


''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.

Ralph:cool:

financerulez

Dear Sirs

As stated previously I am the Registered Keeper of the vehicle. You will need to take this issue up with the driver.

I have no liability as Keeper as POFA 2012 does not apply.

The Owner can also have no liability as more than 6 months has expired since the alleged breach occurred, rendering a prosecution impossible.

Please therefore delete my details and do not contact me further other than to confirm the matter is closed. Further attempts to contact me may result in a claim for breaches of the DPA and harassment.

Yours faithfully

X

financerulez

Also do us a favour in return and if this was Indigo, write/email to DVLA and BPA saying:

I've received a Notice to Keeper and appeal rejection that is so clearly wrong and anti-consumer that you need to take action against Indigo.

Indigo have claimed the Owner will be held liable for an alleged breach of a byelaw, despite there being no chance of proving this alleged breach as more than 6 months have passed, and despite them having no information other than knowing I am the Registered Keeper. They are trying to imply I, as Registered Keeper, am somehow liable for an unproven and impossible to prove breach, despite POFA 2012 not applying to byelaw governed land.

Their rude letter refuses to provide further information on the matter, e.g. they state "we are not able to provide this", when asked for dated photos of the signage they contend forms a contract.

Once again, they are trying to blur byelaw enforcement with contract law, and claim the Owner will be held liable under byelaw 14 (despite the actual law saying MAY be held liable), yet claim they are pursuing a breach of contract. Even more ridiculously they have sent a PENALTY notice, (despite penalties being banned in contracts - not a charge notice like ParkingEye v Beavis) and state "the balance does not relate to costs incurred by this breach."

The whole thing is a mess, they're clearly trying to trick me, the Registered Keeper, into paying for something where I have done nothing wrong, and they know I have done nothing wrong.

You can't continue to allow them to operate like this. Please let me know what action you will take against them?

Kind regards

X

twhitehousescat

neither the DVLA or the BPA will take action

DVLA , receive £2.50 every time keepers info is requested

BPA is a trade organisation funded by members (indigo) whos intention is to protect the livelihood of members