South Western Railway Overcharging

joncombe

Until a couple of years ago when travelling on the South Western Railway network (or South West Trains, as it was then) you could buy an Off Peak Travelcard at weekends which would give a return ticket to London and then a Zone 1-6 travelcard for unlimited use on trains, tubes, buses within London for the day at weekends.

Then they renamed this ticket "Super Off Peak Weekend Travelcard" and introduced time restrictions and a more expensive "Off Peak Travelcard" that did not have any time restrictions.

However I discovered I've been buying this latter more expensive ticket unneccessarily each time.

The "Super Off Peak Weekend" travelcard is described here https://www.southwesternrailway.com/train-tickets/find-the-best-fare/weekend-super-off-peak but in summary the restrictions are

1. Not valid for travel into London between 9:31 and 11:59am
2. Not valid to depart London between 04:30 and 10:59am and between 16:00 and 18:30.

There are no time restrictions within the Travelcard zones, only when travelling outside the zones.

However I wasn't aware of the morning restriction not applying before 9:30am and so have been buying the more expensive ticket. The reason for this is simple, if you input details of a suitable journey on the South Western Railway website (https://www.southwesternrailway.com/) you are not offered this cheaper "Super Off Peak" ticket, only the more expensive "Off Peak".

For example if you put in to travel from Woking to London Kings Cross this coming Saturday, arriving before 09:30 and departing after 18:30 you will be quoted a price of £24.10, the price off the Off Peak Ticket. However the "Super Off Peak" ticket is valid at this time and costs £19.30 instead, so almost £5 cheaper.

If you put the same journey into the National Rail website you will be offered the cheaper ticket - except of course you can't actually buy tickets on the National Rail website.

I have contacted South Western Railway who did agree that this was incorrect and also told me that if they input the same details on the system they use for telephone sales it always shows the cheaper "Super Off Peak" ticket but also agreed that their website does not offer it. They raised this with their web team. This was months ago and nothing has changed.

It annoys me that they are overcharing on the website. The ticket machines at stations don't even detail the restrictions either, they just direct you to thre website (they just give a web address and tell you to check there for the restrictions).

Is there anything more that can be done? I have also contacted the "Rail Delivery Group" but they just tell me that they "do not maintain or create any fares" and to contact the rail operator, which I have done.

I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that rail operators were obliged to offer the cheapest ticket valid for the journey. They are not doing that in this case but it seems I cannot get it changed.

stragglebod

I wonder if the journey planner is counting getting on the tube at Waterloo as 'boarding at a station in London zones 1-6' which you can't do on that ticket before 11:05?

Certainly that ticket isn't valid on the journeys that involve changing at Clapham Junction or Vauxhall before 11:05 which seem to be the majority that the SWR journey planner returns.

joncombe

stragglebod wrote: »

I wonder if the journey planner is counting getting on the tube at Waterloo as 'boarding at a station in London zones 1-6' which you can't do on that ticket before 11:05?

Certainly that ticket isn't valid on the journeys that involve changing at Clapham Junction or Vauxhall before 11:05 which seem to be the majority that the SWR journey planner returns.

No because underneath these time conditions it says

If you have a Super Off-Peak Day Travelcard and you are travelling wholly within the London Zones 1-6 area, these restrictions do not apply.

So once in London you are travelling wholly within the zones and so these restrictions do not apply. There is no such thing as a Super Off Peak Weekend Travelcard only for travel within zones 1-6. TFL have confirmed there are no time restrictions on any travelcard at weekends. The National Rail journey planner also shows the cheaper ticket - but South Western Railway do not.

stragglebod

There is no such wording on the ticket. Restrictions are at
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ur

In any case, your journey is not wholly within the the London zones 1-6 area. Woking is outside.

jeffkey1

See I knew it had changed!! (In the last two years) I used to get a super off peak to London and get the 9:00 train. Now I have to get the 7:48 on Sundays to get the cheapest fare.

joncombe

stragglebod wrote: »

There is no such wording on the ticket. Restrictions are at
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ur

In any case, your journey is not wholly within the the London zones 1-6 area. Woking is outside.

This ticket is only available for journeys starting/ending outside of the zones.

In any case I have been in touch with the Rail Delivery Group who have told me the following.

I’m sorry that our website has not yet been updated with this information, but to explain, the Train Operators are responsible for uploading information directly to our website and we have no control over when this is done.

I’m pleased to let you know though that we contacted the Pricing Manager at South Western Railway and have now received a response.

He mentioned that the Restriction UR is used for both the rail-only and Day Travelcards. The Online Journey Planner cannot currently deal with journeys via (e.g changing at Clapham Junction), and therefore, treats each change as a separate journey, but a large body of work is currently taking place to improve the Journey Planner and indeed the de-complicate fares like these. In the meantime, I can confirm that this travelcard is valid at any time at weekends when you’re inside Zones 1-6. The departure time restriction at Clapham Junction is only intended for journeys to stations beyond Zone 6.

So it seems the conditions of this ticket have NEVER properly been applied in any journey planner but the time restrictions only refer to the rail portion of the journey that involves travel outside of the zones. Once in the zones, there are no time restrictions.

I do wonder how many people have bought more expensive tickets than needed because neither South Western Railway or National Rail have properly implemented the restrictions on the journey planner. Not helped by the fact the ticket machines at the station simply direct you to the National Rail website when you ask for the conditions of the ticket.