Public sector pay freeze/Inflation calculation

GreatApe

economic wrote: »

What type of doctor are you comparing in the US? Maybe in the US you have more specialist doctors/surgeons etc (as a proportion of overall doctors compared to the uk) who would naturally demand higher wages given their specialty?

Being a GP is not a difficult job. They can easily be replaced by AI etc.

Primary care $217,000
Specialist care $316,000
Average of the two $294,000

Socialised healthcare works as the government has real skin in the game to slow/stop doctors from gaming the system to too much in their favor. $294,000 for the median physician is crazy.

economic

GreatApe wrote: »

Primary care $217,000
Specialist care $316,000
Average of the two $294,000

Socialised healthcare works as the government has real skin in the game to slow/stop doctors from gaming the system to too much in their favor. $294,000 for the median physician is crazy.

that maybe true but if i were a top doctor (specialist or primary) and i do not see a need to be in the UK, wouldn't i just move to the US and get a pay bump? I would imagine many young doctors who are good would consider the move at least. This would leave the UK with fewer top doctors. I'm not so worried about this in primary care (as i said any monkey can do this job) but top specialist doctors moving abroad for higher pay is worrying to me.

Pennywise

economic wrote: »

but top specialist doctors moving abroad for higher pay is worrying to me.

Many "top specialist doctors" will be running private practices on the side of their NHS work so will be making a lot more than the official pay scales suggest.

economic

Pennywise wrote: »

Many "top specialist doctors" will be running private practices on the side of their NHS work so will be making a lot more than the official pay scales suggest.

Exactly. This is what GreatApe misses in his analysis.

GreatApe

economic wrote: »

that maybe true but if i were a top doctor (specialist or primary) and i do not see a need to be in the UK, wouldn't i just move to the US and get a pay bump? I would imagine many young doctors who are good would consider the move at least. This would leave the UK with fewer top doctors. I'm not so worried about this in primary care (as i said any monkey can do this job) but top specialist doctors moving abroad for higher pay is worrying to me.

Only you would find that your qualifications are not accepted in the USA as their medical professional bodies keep supply of doctors down to drive wages to $300,000

GreatApe

Pennywise wrote: »

Many "top specialist doctors" will be running private practices on the side of their NHS work so will be making a lot more than the official pay scales suggest.

That is unlikely to change the median figures much if say 5% of NHS doctors also work on the side it won't make a huge difference

USA doctors are paid 3x as much, pensions and a bit of work on the side don't cover this huge gap

Like it or not the reality is doctors are smart people who are respected so given free rein will limit supply to keep wages high. Socialised healthcare is a counter balance to this

westernpromise

If it's possible to earn $300k being a doctor, a lot of smart people will want to do it, because they'd make that whatever they did, and it's more worthwhile than being, say, an accountancy partner on the same money.

If it's only possible to earn $100k doing it, then it will fail to attract people who could be earning $300k, who will go off and become accountancy partners. Their places will be taken up mainly by people who wouldn't expect to make more than $100k anyway, and who choose to make their $100k being a doctor because it's the same money as but more worthwhile than being an estate agent or a taxi driver.

So, while cheap, the inexorable conclusion about our doctors is that they are roughly as smart as estate agents and taxi drivers.

If I ever need my piles shrunk or my gonads scanned, I'll have it done in America.

westernpromise

GreatApe wrote: »

That is unlikely to change the median figures much if say 5% of NHS doctors also work on the side it won't make a huge difference

USA doctors are paid 3x as much, pensions and a bit of work on the side don't cover this huge gap

Like it or not the reality is doctors are smart people who are respected so given free rein will limit supply to keep wages high. Socialised healthcare is a counter balance to this

Socialised healthcare = state monopsony. When the state is the sole buyer of all labour everyone becomes poor, as in the USSR. It's just a question how far towards universal poverty we all want to go.

economic

westernpromise wrote: »

So, while cheap, the inexorable conclusion about our doctors is that they are roughly as smart as estate agents and taxi drivers.

This is so true. I have had to use the services of my GPs recently and i have come to the same conclusion.

economic

westernpromise wrote: »

Socialised healthcare = state monopsony. When the state is the sole buyer of all labour everyone becomes poor, as in the USSR. It's just a question how far towards universal poverty we all want to go.

People think private healthcare is risky and that the poor will suffer from it. In reality we all suffer from socialized healthcare in that the vast majority of us receive sub par healthcare service at the expense of everyone getting healthcare. it shouldn't be this way. specially as much of the poor are immigrants who haven't contributed much to this economy both personally and through their ancestors.