P45 - wrong date, ex employer wont change

melanie262

Hi,
New to forums, often read for advice but can't find anything that matches what I need to know completely.
My ex employee let me go 1st November with no notice and no wages. After going through ACAS we have reached a settlement, more in his favour but I could have lost my home if I held out for tribunal.
I have since found out he informed HMRC on my P45 (that he refused to give me a copy of, or rather ignored all request for) that I left on Dec 5th, and I'm being penalised with what HMRC say is tax owed. I started a new job November 20th and with his completely exaggerated wages for that period (more than my normal wage), HMRC think I owe them nearly £400 which they are taking from wages between now and April.
I, as any sensible person would think to do, informed HMRC of the "mistake". Unfortunately they told me I have to get him to alter this. He's denying any knowledge and refusing to help.
Does anyone know of any legal references I can send to him, or offer a letter template to send, or suggest how to rectify without his co-operation? It may not seem like a lot of money, but due to losing out on settlement, loss of income through unemployed period etc it's money I can't afford.
I currently still have company computer equipment worth roughly £500 he is pestering to collect, which I would like to use as a bargaining chip, but understand it's my legal duty to return. Unfortunately I can't say on email "sort out HMRC first" on email as it makes me appear in the wrong legally should things escalate, and he won't answer my calls to discuss over the phone.
Thanks.

sangie595

Blackmail isn't an appropriate employment system. If you have assets belonging to the employer, it is your duty to return those assets. Keeping hold of them doesn't make you appear wrong. It makes you wrong. Full stop.

melanie262

I have no intention of permanently depriving them of anything. I would like help solving a legal issue. I’m not the criminal here. He is the one whose broken multiple employment laws (along with a fair few criminal laws too). I hope you never need to negotiate with such a self centred ex employer when all the rules make it difficult to get what is right fair and legal.

tealady

Hi
Did your employer pay you by check or bank transfer?
You say they let you go with no wages, what was the last date you were paid for?
In the settlement, what date would that money cover you for?

If you were paid in cash then you may be stuffed as it would be your ex employers word against yours. However if they are claiming they paid you to 5th Dec I would check your NI has been paid to that date. Perhaps send the computer equipment back with a note to that effect.

BTW if you read a fww of Sangies posts you will see how knoweldgable she is in dealing with employers. Her advice was spot on, two wrongs never make a right.

Hope you can get this sorted.

Sarastro

melanie262 wrote: »

I have no intention of permanently depriving them of anything. I would like help solving a legal issue. I’m not the criminal here. He is the one whose broken multiple employment laws (along with a fair few criminal laws too). I hope you never need to negotiate with such a self centred ex employer when all the rules make it difficult to get what is right fair and legal.

I don't think your ex-employer is a criminal either unless he's been found guilty of something - if he had clearly broken a law you would have gone for the tribunal. If you have evidence he''s broken criminal law, then call the police and let them deal with it.

I hear you're really angry about it, but he's not going to do anything to make you feel better -
that's up to you. My advice is to focus on moving on. So, I suggest you return the computer equipment asap as that is the right thing to do.

Why is HMRC asking for tax if you've paid through PAYE? Tax is deducted at source so you must have been paid the salary at the same time? The employment date doesn't really matter, it's what was paid to you that does.

chrisbur

Not sure I understand what the problem is. You have headed your post "P45 - wrong date" but later say "his completely exaggerated wages for that period"
Can you give full details of payments from old and new employers, the dates they were made and if they were actually paid to you?

TELLIT01

Having the wrong date on a P45 was far from uncommon when we received them at DWP. The date might be when the person actually last worked a shift, when employment actually ceased, or when the P45 was created. That's not a massive issue, but having incorrect wage information clearly is.
If you have payslips for the period covered by the P45 you might want to pass them to HMRC so they can investigate further.

molerat

^^ This. The wrong date on a P45 will make little difference in the big picture and will be sorted by year end. A wrong figure of pay to that date however will affect your tax due.

sangie595

melanie262 wrote: »

I have no intention of permanently depriving them of anything. I would like help solving a legal issue. I’m not the criminal here. He is the one whose broken multiple employment laws (along with a fair few criminal laws too). I hope you never need to negotiate with such a self centred ex employer when all the rules make it difficult to get what is right fair and legal.

I didn't say you did have such an intention, did I? I said that blackmail is not an appropriate negotiating tool, and puts you in the wrong. What laws you allege he has broken are irrelevant - you are wanting to refuse to return his property until you get what you want, and that is blackmail.

It is his property, and he has asked for its return. He would be perfectly entitled to call the police, and that would make you the "criminal".

For your information, I negotiate with self centred employers all the time. Which is why I know that two wrongs do not make a right, and what you allege he may have done is entirely irrelevant. In respect of your employment, you accepted a settlement so that matter is over. In respect of his alleged criminal actions, either report them or don't - but they also have no relevance to this matter. The only relevant matter is that you have been asked to return his property, and since it is his property, you must do so. You know that is the case - toy were the one who said you knew you must! What benefit is there for him in dealing with your concerns about your P45 when you are holding equipment worth more than the disputed amount?

And are you sure that you are correct? A settlement payment which relates in whole or in part to unpaid wages or holidays is taxable income. NI also has to be paid on such amounts. Did your settlement agreement specify what should happen with regard to that income tax? If it didn't, then he may very well have declared that income to HMRC and would be correct to have done so.

melanie262

Through ACAS he agreed to pay me 3 weeks redundancy. This is confirmed in writing and isn’t taxable.
He also owed me three weeks notice, £2000 commission for tasks completed and settled, 6 days holiday, one day worked in November, half my October wages not paid. + £65 money owed for expenses he had signed off on.
I couldn’t pay my rent so settled.
He has put on my p45 I was employed till dec 5th. And my wage from November 1st till dec 5th was 1.5 x my normal salary. As I was also employed in my new job from November 20th, and as he wouldn’t give me a p45 HMRC have calculated I owe them tax. Whether he has paid PAYE for me from November 1st till December 5th I don’t know. But I wasn’t paid in that period. My wages were always done via bank transfer.
He also didn’t implement pensions from April 2017 till my leave date that I’m separately pursuing via the pensions advice people (ACAS won’t deak with this).
I didn’t go to tribunal due to the waiting times to get to court and also worried that he will either be in prison by then (and company folds) or he will go into administration. Even if this didn’t happen I was advised a tribunal can’t make him pay, and I’d then need to go to small claims court, and potentially go for ccj.
He is being invested criminally for insurance fraud in U.K. (personal) and VAT fraud in Ireland. I mentioned this as to reference his character, to see if someone had some experience in similar situations.
To be clear I haven’t told him he can’t have computer equipment. He has asked to collect on two occasions (once when I was away away within family over new year) and other time was a mid week daytime collection when I’m at work. My new job doesn’t allow holidays for first three months.
Does anyone know of example legal letters re P45 or a route to getting resolved without his co-operation.
Probably relevant - I worked for him for nearly four years. Two other members of staff walked the lunchtime before he rang me at 6pm with half his business (the Irish side client base, due to the fraud) and as he never contracted them to work in the U.K. (only Ireland before they relocated) he had no recourse to sue for breaching non competition clauses. He then got rid of me to cut my costs and keep uk side of business I brought on for himself.

stator

I'm afraid you're making it impossible for anyone to understand.
We need to simplify.

What has he paid you and when? What was paid in each pay period and how is it broken down?
Has he paid any of the ACAS agreed settlement? If so what.
Does he still owe you anything from the ACAS agreement? If so, what.
Does the payslip match what he has paid you? What is the difference?